Oh AMD, you've done it again[continued]

[Daniel~]

Kaitain:
you have chosen a form that makes replying awkward for me.
my feeling is that it won't sustain or add to our mutual understanding.

why not take one point at a time

as post 15 has your attention lets start there, I've reposed here to aid and ease the conversation.

When I ribbed George of being a fan boy, George knows exactly why i did. ask him. but that's not in post 15.

K. posted
"Post #15 started all this off. Post #15. As I've already asked, what was the real purpose of post #15?"

for a guy who wants to be right you sure are sloppy in ascribing things to me.

suggestion. pick one thing. give me your view of it and allow me to respond.
another stop trying to build a case against me and my posts.

start trying to find the truth that lies between us.
As a rule where there is no malice i try not to attack people, But their ideas. are fair game.
You have yet to show that there is anything wrong with either my approach or my ideas.

by the way i can't read Spanish. can you translate 君子欲讷于言而敏于行 please.


your under the impression that post 15 started what ever this is.
actually it didn't. there was at least one previous thread in which i was called a fanboy.
but lets assume for the sake of my being RIGHT that it was. ( an unfunny)

what wrong with post 15?

oh my purpose, i have a half dozen unfunny responses, But i just learned I'm not funny.
so the awful truth. i wanted to express my opinion.and i did, I did express my option, Sorry I didn't express your opinion, but that seemed a bit forward.

You and I need to decide weather we wish to fight or come to a mutual understanding.
as i have accused no one of anything other than being wrong about my posts motives understandings and have only defended my ideas

Try to organize exactly what you are objecting to. one point at a time. so i may deal with your objections one point at a time.

simple fact;
i did not say what you said i said. you have not and cannot show that i have.
it is not i who is on the offensive. i have accused no one, unless you think corporations are people to, of anything beyond being wrong about what i have said.
If that's an accusation.


so far you have utterly failed to produce a quote by me that says otherwise.
instead you expand your complaints and they to remain unproven by the simple means of quoting me.

my feeling is that your being unfair. you want to win and have little concern for what is true.
Obviously you feel other wise. my suggestion that proof be found of your assertions in my posts may help us both come to a better understanding.

this is where we began. can we do better?

 

[Daniel~]

Surely you must understand that your simple statement of "~I am a Superior Man~~" might be difficult for someone to accept?
Even if you are who wants to claim the relative title of "I am the inferior man?"

I didn't qvetch about this for a very long time. And will reclaim the ignominious title when my sense of pride recovers its balance.

show me where i said that

"The body has inferior and Superior parts. as does the mind.
he who cultivates the Superior parts is a Superior man. he who cultivates the inferior parts is an inferior man."

to say i am a Superior man is to do no more than state what one seeks to cultivate.
never the less show me where i stated what.you say i stated. SHOW ME.

put up or shut up.

K. , George...
I could never do what you are doing. I could never accuse another with out offering the best proof available
in this cast the best proof is the only proof. my posts. You both seem to have a rather strong aversion to doing that.Despite my asking for such proof many times. this is something i think you need to look at..

this is true in the large and small of our lives.

If i were to say that George Washington hated democracy, why you would want rather extraordinary proof of my claim, Most likely you would insist upon the best proof available a verified quote from George himself confirming my accretion.

i ask for no more than that. Your both making claims about my posts, neither of you offer the best proof of those claims. but instead simply expand upon your accusations without once referring to the source of those accusations, my posts.

at this point is beginning to look rather irrational. we know you did it so we don't have to offer the proof you require so you can know what you did.

so put your egos in your pockets and show me what seems so plain to you has it root in something real, i wrote. please.

 

[Daniel~]

Daniel~ said: ↑
From my point of view, you never showed where I said anything like what i asked for..

Kaitain responded;

You asked for several things:
- you asked "show me how and where AMD is morally superior" and I addressed this question
- you asked for me to respect your neutral position, and I have acknowledged that I do
- you also asked a number of other points that do not follow from my intervention, and which I'm not going to address.

So I have addressed what you asked me for. You might not have wanted the answers you got, or you may have wanted me to respond to different points, but then you would have to ask different questions.

Daniel's response:
no basically i asked for one thing, that you prove your assertion by quoiting me. for me the rest is just a difference of opinion and as such of only passing import.

i'm not dismissing what you did to help further this. i have stated that you have moved my understanding as to amd approach when compared to intel.

how is it you keep missing what i want. i have constantly repeated myself on this. show me where what you have asserted is grounded in statements i have made.

this can't be that hard to do if you are correct. i mean you base your view on something i said right? then show me what i said. one point at a time. So i can enjoy your total defeat...that's a joke k.';o]

 

[Kaitain]

Kaitain:
you have chosen a form that makes replying awkward for me.
my feeling is that it won't sustain or add to our mutual understanding.

why not take one point at a time

Oh don't do that! I thought I'd ordered the full argument and not some five-post quickie!

When I ribbed George of being a fan boy, George knows exactly why i did. ask him. but that's not in post 15.

K. posted
"Post #15 started all this off. Post #15. As I've already asked, what was the real purpose of post #15?"

your under the impression that post 15 started what ever this is.
actually it didn't. there was at least one previous thread in which i was called a fanboy.
but lets assume for the sake of my being RIGHT that it was. ( an unfunny)

Yes, I remember the thread. I thought both the offending statement and the over-reaction to it rather comic as well. Seriously - this happened in June, and we're almost in September. Tell me you're not still holding a grudge? After all, that little misunderstanding between friends was resolved quite amicably.

my feeling is that your being unfair. you want to win and have little concern for what is true.
Obviously you feel other wise. my suggestion that proof be found of your assertions in my posts may help us both come to a better understanding.

this is where we began. can we do better?

Oh all right then, spoilsport. It was just getting fun!

What was wrong with post #15 and after:

cloasters is an unashamed fanboy. I don't see any harm his making the occasional fanboy post in favour of his preferred processor vendor. I don't understand why you have a problem with his being a fanboy and making his fanboy posts - it's his right to be a fan of AMD if he chooses - and you chose to reopen a 3 month old "misunderstanding between friends." You did so based on no research of the subject matter and made a number of statements about AMD in particular that were demonstrably not true, which is the bit I concentrated on in my first post, and I see you've acknowledged has moved your thoughts along on the subject. If there's any "victory" to be had, that's the one I'm happy to claim

I'd still like to know why you felt the need to write post 15, as it does jar somewhat that cloasters asks a rather basic question about graphics card performance and gets an earful. It's... at least, a little tactless. From my perspective, the disagreement in the other thread was already closed, done and dusted, and I felt cloasters was being somewhat roughly handled with that and following posts. Maybe you were still feeling bitter about this subject, and we needed a nice cathartic dispute?

As to my other contribution - you owned up in #38 that you don't like corporations, so why do I need to "prove" it? Note that charities and non-profit organisations legally have to incorporate as corporations (and that is a genuine law, at least in the UK) so... not all corporations are evil

by the way i can't read Spanish. can you translate 君子欲讷于言而敏于行 please.

I thought Google might have found the Confucian quote for you - roughly, "the superior man speaks modestly and acts greatly," which could be interpreted to mean, of course, that a superior man is unlikely ever to claim to be a superior man, which is my way of gently chiding you for some of your posts in the middle of the thread

Perhaps I should've gone with 过错并不存在，除非你仍旧记住它 - meaning "to be wronged is nothing, unless you continue to remember it"

I forget this thread as soon as I click out of it, and hope you do, too

 

[Kaitain]

no basically i asked for one thing, that you prove your assertion by quoiting me.

how is it you keep missing what i want. i have constantly repeated myself on this. show me where what you have asserted is grounded in statements i have made.

Which assertion of mine do you think I've not responded to adequately?

I'm starting to think that you're expecting me to respond to cloasters' rather different argument, as well as my own...

 

[Daniel~]

i can't see you tube unless i repost here, go figure

i just have to say i really don't enjoy argument. i much prefer sharing insights and comparing perceptions.

evidently you prefer unsubstantiated accusations. i require evidence.
i can't make you do i

 

[Daniel~]

wow! George thanks so much for your forbearance of the fault you have yet to demonstrate I have.
like i said a disinclination of the ear.

see if any of this rings a bell
he who cultivates the superior parts of his nature is a superior man
he who cultivate the inferior parts of his nature is a inferior men

i'm ignoring you because your deaf to me.

Because you continue to make unfounded
accusation against one who has only tried to help you.
'how sharper than a serpents tooth is an ungrateful child."

'Surely you must understand that your simple statement of "~I am a Superior Man~~" might be difficult for someone to accept?'


SHOW ME THE GODDAMN POST OR GET YOUR DIRTY LITTLE FEET OUT OF MY MIND

A zen quote


get on to something real.

I am a superior man as I have defined him. But I cannot EVER recall having made that statesmen and your to god damn careless of my honor. you keep posting this shit without a quote to prove it.
George that is dishonorable. it's called slander. ESPECIALLY as i have repeatedly asked you no t to

trust me is better to go unnoticed than step on a dragon's tail.

 

[Daniel~]

let's play a game i'm better at ';o]

i'll have more fun that way, you might as well

recently i posted

patience is the last fruit to ripen upon the tree of waiting.
once she has has taken us into her heart
and the seed is set
we need wait no more.

"tis a gift to be simple
tis a gift to be free
tis a gift to come down
to where we ought to be.''

Why need we wait no more?

hint: the answer is buried in the second quoted statement.
Lets see if your as good at understanding as you are at arguing.LOL

 

[Daniel~]

"Modesty is not weak good naturalness that lets things take a downward course modesty at times must come forth and defend itself.
in most cases modesty is shown by an interest in ones work."

as your both rather prolific, i decided to take the two for one approach.
what doesn't hit one might stick to the other

When has accuracy been a requirement for posting here? ":O}

 

[Kaitain]

as your both rather prolific, i decided to take the two for one approach

Having just reread the thread,

Which assertion of mine do you think I've not responded to adequately?

As far as I can tell, most of your argument is "I haven't said what you've said I've said, now prove me wrong." I'm now lost as to what I've said you've said that you think you haven't said that we haven't already discussed. Got a quote for me?

 

[Daniel~]

Selectively quoted again, but rest assured that I have read, and thought about, all that was written.

Something about my current job - a lot of it is spent writing letters. My clients have particular opinions, the construction contractor has particular opinions, the contract has its own ambiguities, and my job is to cut through all the wordy crap to see to the heart of the subject, in order to advise my client better.

Anyway, I apply that skill set to other areas of life as well, like your posts. You dislike corporations and consequently automatically assume that any corp has your worst interest at heart. That comes baked in.

But it doesn't mater, except as my attempt to explain to myself why, in post #15, you chose to go on the attack. I still don't understand it.

You asked for several things:
- you asked "show me how and where AMD is morally superior" and I addressed this question
- you asked for me to respect your neutral position, and I have acknowledged that I do
- you also asked a number of other points that do not follow from my intervention, and which I'm not going to address.

So I have addressed what you asked me for. You might not have wanted the answers you got, or you may have wanted me to respond to different points, but then you would have to ask different questions.

Mine is a lot simpler - whether cloasters is an AMD fanboy or not is his business. Why did you decide to pick at this? What was the real purpose of post #15?



I think you're ascribing to me traits that you see in yourself. I played your words back to you and asked you what mental image I should form from that. I did add some commentary to various quotes to help you in that. Sadly, if there was any humour in your posts, it didn't survive the translation from thought into text...

Post #15 started all this off. Post #15. As I've already asked, what was the real purpose of post #15?

... and yet this is exactly what you did to cloasters in post #15.

As with all these things, time will pass and something else will entertain. There have been a couple of other topics of conversation in this thread: on the more metaphysical stuff, I'd just simply say 君子欲讷于言而敏于行

how about applying that skill set to finding evidence of your claim . you still have not shown me anything i need retract or why i should. as to this being what 'i did to cloisters, bullshit.

15 contain my views and i repeatedly said those views had nothing to do with George and that he was taking it to personally...
when you deal professionally do your clients ever ask for proof , do you stall them as well. i fear for your fortunes
i have accused no one of any thing other than abuse of me in denying me the right to ask for proof.

top of page two:
D~

"While its true that corporations don't always act in the best interests of employees or wider society, you cannot say with such certainty that AMD is an evil monolith hell-bent on domination."

Never said it was you have never shown I did/.

i told you how we could return to clarity one step at a time. you declined. any confusion that exist after that is on you.

 

[Daniel~]

Moral superiority suits no one. Yet the illusion of such appeals to us all from time to time. Mea culpa with the added explanation that I feel so phucking inferior in so many ways that the illusion of superiority is very tempting. Thanks for setting me straight.

Yet please, please remember that repeatedly repeating your own moral superiority gets on my wick (as was said in the UK) at times.

drop dead.';o]

 

[cloasters]

Daniel, did you notice that my quotation begins with the "~" symbol. And ends with two "~~" of these. To me this "~" signifies "More or less."

So I plead guilty. Perhaps we can find new material for other threads?

 

[cloasters]

yes it is. that why i have added subtitles for you lol

Rats. Doesn't work for me.

 

[Daniel~]

Daniel, did you notice that my quotation begins with the "~" symbol. And ends with two "~~" of these. To me this "~" signifies "More or less."

So I plead guilty. Perhaps we can find new material for other threads?

sorry George I'm unfamiliar with your smoke signals.

more or less got us into this mess. when making accusation i recommend precision and proof.

i offer this;
let's play a game i'm better at ';o]

i'll have more fun that way, you might as well

recently i posted

patience is the last fruit to ripen upon the tree of waiting.
once she has has taken us into her heart
and the seed is set
we need wait no more.

"tis a gift to be simple
tis a gift to be free
tis a gift to come down
to where we ought to be.''

Why need we wait no more?

hint: the answer is buried in the second quoted statement.
Lets see if your as good at understanding as you are at arguing.LOL

this game harms no one.

 

[Daniel~]

Rats. Doesn't work for me.

upper left corner when movie is paused. it will open a whole list of options for subtitles.

 

[Kaitain]

"While its true that corporations don't always act in the best interests of employees or wider society, you cannot say with such certainty that AMD is an evil monolith hell-bent on domination."

Never said it was you have never shown I did/.

Oh, is that it? You're getting all over-sensitive over that statement? After all these pages, that's the bit you're sore about?



Thank you for the best laugh I've had all week. Of course I exaggerated that sentence. That was its purpose - it's a baited hook, to get you to engage, and it served it's purpose admirably.

Same time next week? You pick the subject next time

/me wanders off giggling

 

[Daniel~]

And you think i'm unfunny.';o]

 

[ThunderRd]

Gentlemen:

At the risk of escalating this already intense discussion of a now-personal nature, I am failing to see how any of this is related to 'Hardware' anymore. As a result I am going to hose you all down, before we get into a dick-swinging contest, which I see coming rapidly. Everyone is getting defensive, and I don't want to see anyone *getting their retaliation in first*.

Let's remember that our friendships here should mean far more than attempting to prove ourselves to each other. This thread is destined to get ugly, and I, for one, don't like that. Take a couple of deep breaths, and settle down.

You, too, Daniel. I created a special forum area just for you, and for this purpose. Use it instead. One thing that would really help around here is to keep our posting on-topic. Both you and George are often guilty of not doing that. Not *every* topic has to turn into a political/ideological/philosophical exchange. At GOL it is commonplace; I've seen it several times in the music thread, where all we want to do is to just make suggestions about music and artists we admire. We keep the leash pretty loose here, but maybe it should be tightened a bit. Keep the arguments about your principles where they belong.

If you guys insist on pursuing this particular discussion, may I suggest that it be taken into a different forum, preferably 'The Path I Walk', since it has now become a solely philosophical discussion rather than a Hardware one. Feel free to 'discuss' this further there.

Alternatively [and preferably] we can drop it altogether, and go back to being good mates again. For 13 years I've enjoyed the occasional banter, but this doesn't feel like fun.

From what I see, all this began with post #15. Not that it is so controversial in and of itself, but since it's cited thereafter in several of the posts, it has to go. So, with your agreement, I'll move that one and all posts after it to 'The Path I Walk', and you can go at it there, or as I said before, just let it go.

If anyone feels I'm out of line by saying this, let me know now, so I have an excuse to close the thread altogether. It's my job here to maintain a site that is appealing to *all* of our membership. I don't really think that our *other* readers are interested in a hardware discussion gone *sour*.

 

[Daniel~]

can you move the thread and just leave my posts?
Their the ones that should e punished.
can we kick them out of the forums.
no need to make a big deal about it just quietly move them along, maybe
give'em a ticket to the movies so they don't feel bad.

i would prefer if you didn't tell of my involvement.
it's important to George that i remain above the fray.

Oh and Thanks for coming down on my side of this
I was hoping i could depend upon your being total biased and corrupt in my favor.
and you totally came trough for me big guy!!

are they gone yet?

they can't read this can they? ';o]

thanks TR for stepping up they were really getting out of line.

Whatever you do try not to worry, your job is completely safe for now.

BTW

whose version of tumor hell do you subscribe to, mine right?

oh what a good fellow you are!!

do you guys see what you made TR do?

no need to get all huffy puffy about it

TR is watching you.

Again thanks TR.