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Oh AMD, you've done it again[continued]

Discussion in 'The Path I Walk' started by Daniel~, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

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    D~

    I'd stated that you were allowing your own prejudices to bubble to the surface. I stand by that.

    You may have misunderstood and assumed that, as the subject in hand was AMD, that I was suggesting you were biased towards Intel: that is not what I was referring to. You have a simple dislike of corporations and the rich. That's what you brought to the party. This has come up in a few threads previously so I don't regard it as a recent phenomenon. With me so far?

    This thread started out fairly mundane - we're talking about AMD's new EPYC Rome CPU, and the conversation widens to include AMD video drivers. We've all been burned by trying to get the legacy ATi fglrx driver working, and AMD didn't really improve on it with either Catalyst or Adrenalin drivers for Linux, so it's a fair question. I'm OK with the open source drivers, btw, but have some trouble with Vulkan and the occasional sound issue as mesa's support for Raven Ridge still in a bit of flux.

    Cloasters notes in post #14 that top performance still requires an AMD processor paired with an nVidia gfx card. Your posts starting at #15 were not consistent with the thread, since you took this opportunity (why?) to go on the offensive. I've quoted selectively, as otherwise this would run to pages and we'd all lose the plot.

    The two companies are very different in philosophy, operating practice and product portfolio.
    Where did this come from? Being a fan of products from a particular company doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to befriend the company. By that token, you should be nVidia's friend, as you're clearly fond of their graphics cards. People have the right to prefer particular products over others, for whatever reasons matter to them. Why do you care?
    At this point, your dislike of money comes shining through. Note that in no law does it mandate that a company has to screw its customers. It's not even a legal requirement to actually make money. Can you point to an example of when AMD (specifically) has elected to shaft its customers? It's your turn to post a link.
    Pro-tip: Linux is a kernel, and does not care about you. AMD may well be no better than MS and Intel in the grand scheme of things, but they appear to be better behaved about it - AMD isn't well known for stifling competition, reneging on agreements or deliberately breaking its designs to inhibit compatibility. The other two are.

    But how a company behaves isn't important if you dislike all companies, I guess.

    Maybe, but there's no evidence of them behaving the way Intel does, unless you've got an example to share?

    Godwin makes an early appearance :p

    OK... which company engaged in systematic use of threats, rebates, special discounts and other coercive tactics to lock its competitor out of the market, reneged on licence agreements with said competitor, and generally uses its size and market position to stifle opposition? Google may help you here. Which company could have matched or almost-matched its competitor's pricing to make phenomenal profit, but instead pitched its product relatively affordably, at the expense of profitability?

    The evidence of AMD's actual behaviour doesn't match your assertion of how they should behave. That should be sufficient... but of course, they're a corporation, and that's bad...

    I think you'll find I have.

    You did, and I have some sympathy with that position. But... you were so keen to say how ambivalent you are that you decided to turn a technical conversation into a personal dissection of people who don't hold such neutral views. I have no doubt that you have no great affinity for Intel, even if "The Idea that AMD can compete with Intel in any but a minor way seems...well, unproven.." and "AMD [is] unlikely to surpass Intel even with a better chip."

    I respect that neutrality, and I respect your right to confront us with it. But I don't have to agree with you.

    Now here's the bit where I get to be grumpy:

    Quote, please - at what point did I state that was a possible or desirable outcome? I've showed you mine, you show me yours!

    And all that follows is why I didn't want to respond. In my posts to you, I've always maintained a level of courtesy and respect. Apparently, that's not mutual:

    Is D+ more or less than a D~?
    (At this point, I read up to post #15 and note who started the fight)
    (At this point I note that there's a difference between refusing to hear, and not agreeing - perhaps it's the not agreeing that rankles?)
    (I dunno, nobody with a neutral position ever started a fight)
    At this point, I think you've massively over-reacted.
    Mostly because I really didn't want to write this sort of post. If there's no fight, why did you pick one. Yes, it was you that started it. Yes, it is you that has chosen to continue it.

    Don't you think you're being just a little bit childish here?

    Did it ever occur to you that we thought it better to back down for the sake of friendship? That we're trying to protect what you're saying is jeopardised by not responding to your temper tantrum?

    Ah, but I see you're not done yet:
    All I can say is, "wow"


    -------------------------

    Last:
    This is true. Try to stand in my shoes, and read the quotes I've selected above as if you're me.
  2. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    I have always found you to be worth a bit of waiting, besides waiting,... it's what I do.":O}
  3. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    What can I say?

    You have gained this ground. I did not know that AMD Has adhered to a higher practice, but I should have. Being smaller they must deal with greater fairness when dealing with others.

    AMD would have to surpass Intel for us to know if this is it's true heart or only it's market position.

    I also did not know you both were taking this so much to heart.

    I do realize the difference between code and those who code, Those who code for Linux are My friends they prove their friendship with every FREE release.

    Intel, MS and AMD sell me stuff. Linux community gives me stuff. This is the primary difference
    and the foundation of my statement concerning them.

    I have said I don't care enough about corps to be prejudiced. This is the truth. But it seems in my indifference i have failed to know enough about them. AMD does some nice things I didn't know about that should not be over looked. I just have not had the interest to look. So I should not have placed it in the same category as Intel....If you guys are really sure that profit didn't motivate that kindness.
    K.
    I confess you buried me in your response. Honestly I don't have the energy to respond point for point Nor would it be worthwhile.

    What surprises me in all of this is your emotional response. I was never attacking you or George. I was attacking your statements concerning myself.

    I was never angry am not angry now.My disappointment comes in that when I say I don't care I really expected to be believed.

    So Why go on? There is something I wanted you to see, something that can't be shone only discovered.

    It's still there,

    Part of my difficult is that I'm dealing with two people and one argument.
    it is hard to give you both the best truth I know.

    I know it hard to see this when you cannot see me smile.

    Well I have new pieces to the puzzle and will try to work them into what I think I know of you.":O}

    Putting fault aside. You both really do have me wrong on this. I'll have to do some thinking on why that is.

    I thought I spoke clearly, I still think that to be honest. From my point of view I'm dealing with a disinclination of the ear....but whose ear I'll do you the courtesy of letting you determining that for your selves

    Guys we won't be having a lot of fun if our friendship hangs on disagreement being buried.

    The only thing that was ever at stake for me was the truth.
    I was looking for truth and sharing my own. Honestly I never considered dropping anyone from my Christmas list.

    If I had a preference I would say so, if you think about it I always have.

    I can't think why it's important that I have a preference. Or why If I had a preference that would make me biased, when your preference only makes you right.":O}

    I'm sorry I failed, though I did try, to make my good will towards you plain
    No I did not occur to be that proof was declined because you wish not to disturb relations.

    For me that was not a possibility. I would never abandon a friend over a difference in perception.
    That would take villainy. and there is none of that here.

    So here we are! LOL
    We each believe our selves to be in the right.
    If we cling to one another we all will be.

    I have a rather bad failing I always think I'm better understood than I am. I always think I understand the other person better than I do.

    That we are not in person encourages this as I don't see what's not in print, I'm seldom jarred into reappraisal.
    Maybe all of this goes away if we just take each others hand.

    This is me offering my hand.
  4. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    K. i read the post you link at the top.i read it all. I never even said the word corp. It deals with government and what that government is doing to our poor.
    You are right. I don't like corps, but that is not a pre-judgement

    Corps have been declared by modern medicine as sociopathic
    Thy have no compassion for the weak but rather prey upon them.
    Basically corps are form to raise money and hide from personal responsibility.

    In the history of corps there is little to like unless one feels profit is worth the loss of humanity.

    it not always wrong to oppose the powerful.

    From my point of view, you never showed where I said anything like what i asked for..

    I tried along the way to lighten things with humor. this was a mistake. one that had i understood your mood i would not have made.I simply didn't get that this was important to you. That I had offend where I meant to be funny. I also offended when I disliked being accused of being a fan boy for not being a fanboy. seem to convoluted.

    Here's what i have been unable to do. I haven't really been able to see your side of this. our points of view diverge to widely. I think it hurts our efforts that I mixed humor to lighten things which was not seen as humor.

    Like when I said your full of shit.":O}

    We are all full of shit from time to time and humor is how i deal with it.
    I do think you full of shit on this, but mis-conveyed how i feel about your being full of shit.
    Being full of shit is a human condition, for me it just makes us brothers":O}


    I have tried to tell you what was important to me. You.

    As my goodwill was missed, i must assume the possibility that i missed your good will as well.

    Perhaps we should be more careful of one another?
  5. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    k. my feeling is that you set out to prove yourself in the right, this is usually the case as few wish to prove themselves wrong. my feeling is that you feel you've done that. I would be remiss if i didn't say that Disagree with your commentary.

    but you see, commentary wasn't what i asked for. Of course your allowed to disagree or we wouldn't be unhappy now. that's a joke, kinda.

    it was asserted that i took certain positions that i am quite sure i did not take.
    i asked to be shown where i did. you did not do that., In my view.

    i do have something of an advantage in that i know what i feel and i know what i think.
    you obviously do not. nor i of you.

    you say i started the fight. How when i made George call me a fanboy for not having a preference.
    the beginning is always further back than one thinks it is.

    or was it when i made you say i was childish and that my arguments reveal my prejudice bubbling up.
    when they do no such thing.. you quoted me and then dissected my quote to your advantage.
    call me bias, this time you would be accurate but i thing you missed it almost every time.
    man, i really got your goat. i'm sorry.

    this isn't helping, but you see i have accuse no one of anything except misjudging me and refusing to see that you are. i don't know much, but what little i do know i have spent a good deal of time refining.

    i do know my own position on just about everything. that is all i am asserting.i know what i think. I also know that i intelligibly conveyed what I think.

    the rest is out of my hands.
    what is done with it after that is of course beyond my powers to change.

    i really am only after what is true.what is true of this, what is true of that.

    sometimes that truth simply isn't available to me.sometimes i cannot know what is really going on.

    but i always know what i think and i',m not in the habit of writing other than what i think.

    as i mentioned i was frustrated and annoyed that anyone should be so presumptuous as to tell another what they think or how they feel.

    so I'm not going to say you no longer have an open mind on this...but consider the possibility.

    you see as i see this you should have been able to simply post a quote that demonstrated where i did what you said i did. you did not. you interpreted, big diff,

    i must say i found your commentary less than illuminating. you have not shown where i showed preference. instead you embark on a campaign to reveal my prejudice. but if it were really mine you could show it to me without commentary. at least this is how i see this.

    i asked for something quite specific so i might understand where all this went wrong.

    you may feel you did this, i'm sorry that i don't.

    this is and should be a quickly passing matter. that tomorrows trouble will wash away.
    if there is offense in all of this i opplogise (or would if i could spell it ) in advance.
  6. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    I re read it all again, boy you guys are realllyof shit on this one. lol
    George if you wish me to respond to you points of view try reconsidering before posting drek like this.

    '
    "Daniel you stand guilty in your preference for the bigger monster in this competition. I could say that I become tired of your preference for stating that you are above it all but most of the time I think you are.

    Yet it's nice to see that like most of us, you are blind as to at least one your own prejudices."

    You posted this after what 5 or 10 attempts to tell you i don't care,, you give this high handed crap
    what kind of reception did you expect your post to get.?

    at every turn i have tried to tell you both exactly where i stand, at every point you have said "No you don't'
    as i'm no longer the best sourse on what i think...who ya gonna talk to tomorrow? ill still be available but who will you be talking to?

    honestly i'm still disappointed I imagine you are as well..
  7. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    I withdraw the offensive statement. Yet insist that you continue to ignore my statement about infamous post #15.
  8. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

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    For a man that claims that waiting is your thing, your sure are impatient!

    I'm busy, I'll respond to your post before last in a few more days. Please try to stall your apotheosis until then :p
  9. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    i have conceded that amd has some virtue that Intel does not. i have also stipulated that to know weather this is just a reflection of their position in the market place or a real difference in their morality can only be know
    if amd should come to over shadow Intel.

    in such situations my policy has always been to give the underdog the benefit of the doubt. i didn't here as i hadn't done your homework. i say yours as i haven't been assigned this task by my duty. and have no personal inclination to do so.

    we live in different worlds and i try to make allowances for that. but a mannerly approach, with out accusations that are unfounded has always been the prerequisite to my coming to meet with anyone.

    plain and simple you both got mad at me. my truth carries no obligation for any but myself.and those who see my truth.if it is not seen as i see it there is no obligation to hold oneself to it.

    but that in no way lessens my obligation to speak only my truth when i deal with men.
    in case you've forgotten 'the truth is a hard sayer'

    the truth cares not how we feel about it. that's our problem. we must must aline ourselves with it.
    or fall into disarray.my teacher wrote this at the beginning of his dissertation

    'for lovers of truth..if there be such,'

    think about it. 'if there be such' if ever there was a road sign that promised danger this is it.
    do i really love truth or just the truth i think flatters me?

    we have all this choice. we can seek truth or we can insist that we are right.
    those who are right are no longer seeking.
    sometimes they stop seeking\ so they can be right.
    sometimes they are only altering their truth to reflect what the truth they have found is telling them

    be honest George were you looking for truth or asserting you were right?

    as my teachers reservation points out there may not be anyone who is pure enough to truly love only what is true, the truth rarely flatters any of us,

    is why we seek truth out of duty, we have no natural affinity with truth. any more that a criminal loves the law.

    the oddest thing.
    there is no truth in the world.
    in the place of truth stands this world. it's isness towers above our truths.

    truth arises when we seek an understanding of this world. when we can verify our understanding by looking at this world.

    so if the truth rarely likes us and most often criticizes us why mess about with it?

    because dear friend the truth alone can set us free, free of our own unwholesome inclinations. truth alone can scatter our delusions and set us right in the world

    i did not give you what you want because you demanded it of me rather than requesting it.

    and because if i did, you would have been quite happy with your petty little victory an would not be here now with me wondering what went wrong.

    you won't like my diagnosis. i'm not overly fond of it myself.
    in my view you stopped listening, you had your truth and were sure it would lead you to victory

    i knew it could never do that. truth doesn't seek victories. truth seeks only to know what is.
    which is why i kept asking you to show me where i said what you claim i said.

    so i might know what is.

    i am not my teachers equal. i lack many of his most profound understandings,
    i follow like a puppy the teaching of the I-ching. my success is never assured
    i can always go wrong.

    one can not live as i do without having your face rubbed it your own fallibility. at lest twice a day.

    l'll say this of me. i'm either one who knows a thing or two or my mountain of shit will always loom over you little pile,

    if i know a truth am i not obligated when called upon to speak it.?
    no. i am not.

    i'm obligated to never lie. i have no obligation to' speak truth to men

    "cast not your pearls before swine as they will trod them under then turn and rend ye"

    As I have tried to say the truth has never been poplar. i was never so silly as to think i would make me popular.


    so next time resume your usual polite manner, understand that your asking a favor of me
    your asking me to share what took me 70 years to gain.

    it's usually the case that one who asks recognizes a deficiency within one self that they wish to correct.
    a certain degree of humility is required

    when i taught the martial arts i had a student that complained that was always repeating my self.
    ''pop it up. pop your knee up `pop it up when you throw that kick

    he was tired of hearing it.
    my response was "your tried of hearing it, I'm tired of saying it...so do it! you can't progress any further until you do.
    he stood there red faced before our class, them we laughed. i laughed because he finally heard me. He laughed because he just got a much improved front snap kick.

    you seem to think there's hardware and then there all that Daniel stuff.

    for me there is only truth the rest is all just by the way.
    i don't do hardware stuff. i do the truth of hardware stuff.
    which is me saying my approach is more important to me than the subject at hand,

    perhaps not better most certainly different than my fellows. most seem to know better than to ask.';o]

    so amd may show some superiority in some areas. if it were more than that amd would have overtaken intel..

    i'm grateful for any superiority i can get. but i don't assume that amd is doing what it does to be kind. that may be the case but as i said it can not be known without a change of relative market position.
    but amd deserves the benefit of the doubt...even when there is cause for doubt.

    here's something you seemingly over looked. i offered reconciliation at several points, it was ignored in favor of being right.

    i'm not happy with my own responses. i should have shown more patience, i should have taken better care of your feelings.

    in my field of endeavor;
    " there are times when a man must be utterly ruthless toward himself, at times this can be the only means of saving ones soul. of preserving one's own inner light.'

    but such ruthlessness should never be employed when dealing with the short comings of others...i have a tendency to cross over that line when I'm annoyed.
    for my lack lack of patience, i'm sorry..

    i offer my assurance that this won;t leave a mark.i remain your friend.
    i choose you to be my friends.
    i can offer no higher praise.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  10. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    i'm going down shit creek with out a paddle! the fish have stopped talking to me a sure sign
    I shouldn't have baited the hook at feeding time.
    hey i wait nobody ever said i was patient.';o]

    number one on my waiting list...learn some god damn patience!!


    patience is the last fruit to ripen upon the tree of waiting.
    once she has has taken us into her heart
    and the seed is set
    we need wait no more.

    tis a gift to be simple
    tis a gift to be free
    tis a gift to come down
    to where we ought to be.'
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  11. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    Moral superiority suits no one. Yet the illusion of such appeals to us all from time to time. Mea culpa with the added explanation that I feel so phucking inferior in so many ways that the illusion of superiority is very tempting. Thanks for setting me straight.

    Yet please, please remember that repeatedly repeating your own moral superiority gets on my wick (as was said in the UK) at times.
  12. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    if i didn't posses Superior knowledge i could not help you. still want me to give it up?
    in favor of what/?

    i am not weak or timid.

    "'the Superior man posses the innocence of a child and cunning of a dragon.'

    i have put this before you several times and asked you to unpack it.
    had you done so you would not e asking me to be other than i am.

    as i know us to be a lazy group of thinkers i will once more do it for you.

    he requires the innocence of a child in order to greet and love all that
    is worthy of love, sometimes before they are worthy.

    so why the freaking fire breathing dragon?

    to protect the innocence of his child.

    i am as i am to accommodate both child and my dragon
    i am as i am because you are as you are.
    if you think i strut about proclaiming myself you will have to show me in what context i have done so.

    consider out relative positions. do i shape you or do you shape me?

    we shape each other. but in that shaping i will not abandon who i am. Who i am dictates how i work with people. i do not ask you to abandon who you are. I have always worked to free your child and to feed your dragon.

    Have i ever asked anything of you that was not to better you in your own eyes?

    we are not equals in this. i know who i am where i am going and how i'm going to get there.
    you know how to torture yourself torture your child for being a child.

    you have no dragon to protect you.
    So i protect you until i can help you raise your dragon.

    the sage only hides among barbarians. i see no barbarians here.

    i m a sage of the i-Ching i know not one thing the i-Ching hasn't taught me.

    you are lost and i'm trying to help you find you.

    I am willing to withdraw at any time you feel i am impeding your progress.

    lesson of the day.

    it is not the place of the student to alter the teachers behavior. if his behavior is inappropriate...find another teacher.

    Your biggest impediment
    is that your a westerner in an entirely Eastern relationship.
    you think we are equals. your western education insists upon that. because in the west we have little regard for our sages.

    i have worked a lifetime to be in a position to help you.

    You sat around waiting for my help. So you are unprepared to receive my help.

    not a problem. i can wack you with a stick until you get off your lazy ass.
    only two out comes.
    1. after much bruising and embarrassment you get to work upon yourself
    2. you quite and accomplish nothing.

    i am willing to withdraw at any time and we can just be friends.
    until you want more than the pain you dish out to your self.

    this world wasn't made for you and i. you and i were made for this world.
    the world does not need to accommodate us. we must adapt to it.

    you must adapt to me if you want what i have given ample evidence i possess.

    it's always been a choice you must make.But the conditions under which that choice must e made are unalterable. you must make the next move.

    i am unmovable in my devotion to the I-Ching. i follow the I-Ching

    I teach, when i can, the I-Ching

    I'm hardly here at all, I absent myself to give you the wisdom i have gained.

    PS
    aren't you going to ask me what i protect you from/
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  13. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    George i have something for you.
    "Green Frontier" on Netflix.
    it's subtitle but more than worth the effort. i can't say if it can continue in this vain but the first 45 minutes were good enough to pause and come tell you abut it.

    wish us luck.
  14. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    As far as I can tell, the film is in Spanish. With Spanish sub-titles for indigenous dialogue. My hat's off to you, your Spanish must be far more fluent than mine is!
  15. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    Surely you must understand that your simple statement of "~I am a Superior Man~~" might be difficult for someone to accept?
    Even if you are who wants to claim the relative title of "I am the inferior man?"

    I didn't qvetch about this for a very long time. And will reclaim the ignominious title when my sense of pride recovers its balance.
  16. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

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    Selectively quoted again, but rest assured that I have read, and thought about, all that was written.

    Something about my current job - a lot of it is spent writing letters. My clients have particular opinions, the construction contractor has particular opinions, the contract has its own ambiguities, and my job is to cut through all the wordy crap to see to the heart of the subject, in order to advise my client better.

    Anyway, I apply that skill set to other areas of life as well, like your posts. You dislike corporations and consequently automatically assume that any corp has your worst interest at heart. That comes baked in.

    But it doesn't mater, except as my attempt to explain to myself why, in post #15, you chose to go on the attack. I still don't understand it.

    You asked for several things:
    - you asked "show me how and where AMD is morally superior" and I addressed this question
    - you asked for me to respect your neutral position, and I have acknowledged that I do
    - you also asked a number of other points that do not follow from my intervention, and which I'm not going to address.

    So I have addressed what you asked me for. You might not have wanted the answers you got, or you may have wanted me to respond to different points, but then you would have to ask different questions.

    Mine is a lot simpler - whether cloasters is an AMD fanboy or not is his business. Why did you decide to pick at this? What was the real purpose of post #15?

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

    I think you're ascribing to me traits that you see in yourself. I played your words back to you and asked you what mental image I should form from that. I did add some commentary to various quotes to help you in that. Sadly, if there was any humour in your posts, it didn't survive the translation from thought into text...

    Post #15 started all this off. Post #15. As I've already asked, what was the real purpose of post #15?

    ... and yet this is exactly what you did to cloasters in post #15.

    As with all these things, time will pass and something else will entertain. There have been a couple of other topics of conversation in this thread: on the more metaphysical stuff, I'd just simply say 君子欲讷于言而敏于行
  17. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Show me where i ever claimed 'moral superiority i do have a superior morality. a better set of moral practices to which i try to adhere.
    i do concern myself more closely than the does common man with what is right.

    but this can all be made easier if you simply remember that this a completely voluntary relationship.
    as i have zero intentions to change what i say or how i say it to to better suit you.
    As i try to create understandings that better suit the truth.

    you simply do not have to read my posts. I have tried to lend you help where you needed it.
    if you feel this to be a distraction from your own effort, stop reading my posts.
  18. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    yes it is. that why i have added subtitles for you lol
  19. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    start the movie, pause, look up at the top and click, select the language you wish.enjoy
  20. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    post 15, "on the attack""? who did i attack/
    i stated my option.

    It will all clear up for you as soon as you except that AMD is Intel.

    There's not much by which one can tell them apart. I have in the past benefited from AMD, But I have benefited far more from Intel over the past 20 years or so.

    But I understand that neither Has given me a Damned thing. They Sell me stuff at the highest price they think the market can bear. If I can't afford it, and I can't, I build about one in 6 of the computers I'd like to build.

    I build them behind the current wave of Tech. I have yet to build a computer of parts that aren't way behind the curve. Not because I can't but because I can't afford the parts.

    George I honestly think you trying to befriend a corporation which by definition and by Law doesn't give two shits about you.The law mandates their loyalties. They must serve the stock holders. They must by law get every nickel they can and give as little as the must to you.

    I try for the best hardware I can afford at the time. around ten years ago AMD took a powder leaving me but one viable choice. Now Once again AMD has an a competitive offering.

    Last time that lasted around two or three years and it was only competitive price wise. once Cellys hit the market. But I was already invested and never got to play with them...But millions did!! ":O}

    My point would be that either company will shaft you if they can. You may get a deal that befriends you
    But by law they can never befriend you. By law they seek every advantage against the consumer.

    AS I can't see what comes next I look at what came before. A poor marker I admit, but all the rest is educated fortune telling. AMD and Intel churn the market. They offer fake competition that prospers them both.

    I say fake because competition does not drive the market. The need to produce and sell the new motivates both. Some buy on price, like me, some buy on pure performance.

    I wonder how much either make off a new chip and what more they make when the new chip is old and dropping in price?

    These aren't friendly negotiations between you and your chip maker. These are negotiations between chip maker and the what the market can bare. You and I are hardly considerations. Corporations by in large sell to corporations, Were small change to them...by law. Just anothers point of view...

    On a cautionary note, Intel never lets AMD superiority last for long, they can't by law."

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