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Oh AMD, you've done it again[continued]

Discussion in 'The Path I Walk' started by Daniel~, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    It will all clear up for you as soon as you except that AMD is Intel.

    There's not much by which one can tell them apart. I have in the past benefited from AMD, But I have benefited far more from Intel over the past 20 years or so.

    But I understand that neither Has given me a Damned thing. They Sell me stuff at the highest price they think the market can bear. If I can't afford it, and I can't, I build about one in 6 of the computers I'd like to build.

    I build them behind the current wave of Tech. I have yet to build a computer of parts that aren't way behind the curve. Not because I can't but because I can't afford the parts.

    George I honestly think you trying to befriend a corporation which by definition and by Law doesn't give two shits about you.The law mandates their loyalties. They must serve the stock holders. They must by law get every nickel they can and give as little as the must to you.

    I try for the best hardware I can afford at the time. around ten years ago AMD took a powder leaving me but one viable choice. Now Once again AMD has an a competitive offering.

    Last time that lasted around two or three years and it was only competitive price wise. once Cellys hit the market. But I was already invested and never got to play with them...But millions did!! ":O}

    My point would be that either company will shaft you if they can. You may get a deal that befriends you
    But by law they can never befriend you. By law they seek every advantage against the consumer.

    AS I can't see what comes next I look at what came before. A poor marker I admit, but all the rest is educated fortune telling. AMD and Intel churn the market. They offer fake competition that prospers them both.

    I say fake because competition does not drive the market. The need to produce and sell the new motivates both. Some buy on price, like me, some buy on pure performance.

    I wonder how much either make off a new chip and what more they make when the new chip is old and dropping in price?

    These aren't friendly negotiations between you and your chip maker. These are negotiations between chip maker and the what the market can bare. You and I are hardly considerations. Corporations by in large sell to corporations, Were small change to them...by law. Just anothers point of view...

    On a cautionary note, Intel never lets AMD superiority last for long, they can't by law.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  2. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    If I prefer an underdog--well, that's in my nature. Yes, the entire world is corporations killing us as fast as they can. Perhaps you don't understand that AMD is about one twentieth the size of Intel?

    When a tiny corporation bests Goliath in price and performance I take notice and I approve.
  3. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Right now, how many different AMD and Intel chips are being sold?

    On how many of those chips is AMD even beginning to compete?
    As i have explained, I can't afford what is really new.

    So if was buying today I wold be buying yesterdays chip. Yesterday AMD had nothing for me.

    But Tomorrow they will...
    But for me, will they?

    Sure! New Ram, new motherboard and go back to begging for compatibility.

    When I buy Intel I know my gear will work. When I doesn't it is a minor defect, like the one Kaitlin pulled me out of recently.

    In the past I used a lot of AMD stuff. If it benefits me I will again.
    But it won't be because I think AMD is my Friend..It won't be because I think AMD cares more about me than Intel does.

    Neither company can be said to perch upon the high moral ground. They both operate in the same way for the same reasons.

    Just my guess , But I think it likely That AMD only surpasses Intel on Chips Intel doesn't care that much about.
    Sure Intel wants it all. But how much do they want it? Enough to divert their interest from better paying chips?

    Or just enough to beat AMD on 95% of the chips Intel makes?

    In short we've been here before. Again just my guess based on the past. But my guess is that two years from now we will be where we wre with this last year.

    AMD shooting itself in the foot while Intel captivates the market as a whole.

    I once felt enough pressure to rid myself of MS even at the expense of functionality.Linux simply was not ready to serve one so inept as myself. I had to buy a PS3 to play games.

    For me there was a clear difference between MS and Linux. Linux CARES about me.
    MS cares only for my money.

    AMD is not Linux. AMD is just another MS. Same as Intel.

    Sure I'm happy to see any sort of competition.

    If you think AMD offers you a competitive choice, then go for it when you can.

    I would!!

    But the idea that AMD loves you and are the good guys seems wildly improbable

    The Idea that AMD can compete with Intel in any but a minor way seems...well, unproven..

    Whatever hardware anyone chooses...I wish them only good things.
  4. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    Buy any piece of gear you want. If I'm delusional about the current situation in stinking CPU's who cares.
    Enough said.
  5. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    I said nothing about anyone being delusional. AMD may well do better than last time..and change the computing world.
    But not by much. If AMD wishes to be Intel, more power to them. but how would that benefit me?

    Better hardware at a cheaper price? Only if you believe that AMD will sell at cheaper price than they 'need to.
    Once on top they will act exactly as Intel does now. Why wouldn't they? The same forces that shaped Intel will shape AMD.
  6. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Of course I understand The relative size difference.

    It's this difference that makes AMD unlikely to surpass Intel even with a better chip.

    I could be wrong but aren't you taking this a bit personally?

    My views really have nothing to do with you personally.

    George you may not believe this but I don't care who "Wins"
    As both are acted upon by the same forces, and must react in the same way.

    Competition is one of the forces that both must deal with.
    Being 20 times the size of AMD doesn't make either good or bad.

    Hitler was bigger than Mussolini. That doesn't make Mussolini Good.

    In the moral realm size means nothing, action means everything.
    Show me how and where AMD is morally superior and I can change my view on this.

    My views on this have little or nothing to do with you or my feelings for you.
    This is not personal for me. This is just me trying to understand the way the world turns.
  7. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

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    D~

    While its true that corporations don't always act in the best interests of employees or wider society, you cannot say with such certainty that AMD is an evil monolith hell-bent on domination. Its actions to date don't reflect the picture your posts paint - you're allowing your own prejudices to bubble to the surface, and in this case, they're not completely justified.

    In the tech industry, Intel is the ancient behemoth. What it didn't invent, it's attempted either to purchase or squash. Intel licensed x86 to AMD, then attempted to sue them when AMD's implementation ate Intel's breakfast. Intel has a history of litigating against competitors, instead of innovating ahead of them. AMD's only foray in this market, to my understanding, is a suit against MediaTek for copying APU designs.

    Meanwhile, AMD scores highly on corporate social responsibility, has engaged early and well with the open source community, is actively seeking to reduce power consumption and reduce its environmental footprint, and generally doesn't come across as the villain you've portrayed.

    Note, I am not a fan of either company - my choice of AMD for my last laptop was lead by my wallet, and not by favouritism. If absolute performance was still my goal, then I'd have no choice but to opt for nVidia, since no matter how obstinate they are, their performance is best bar none. I want something that just works... and truth is, everything does.
  8. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    You will have to show me where I have said anything like this!!??

    "you cannot say with such certainty that AMD is an evil monolith hell-bent on domination. Its actions to date don't reflect the picture your posts paint - you're allowing your own prejudices to bubble to the surface, and in this case, they're not completely justified."


    Fess up K. You didn't actually read my posts now did You? ":O}
    Trust me I have done this myself...just not recently.":O}

    I clearly and repeatedly stated that I have no preference That is not based upon price and performance.
    That I see little to no difference between then except as George points out Intel is big. So was Hitler,
    Musilli was small they were the same.

    OK Kaitain so tell me of the wondrous changes I should except when Intel is over taken by AND.
    I'm not saying impossible I'm saying a whole big bunch of this economic system will have to change for anything wondrous to occur.

    Most of what controls this situation is baked in. Who ever is on top will still answer to a board and to stock holders.Still bribe the SCC and lie to stock holders. Will still be the dregs of humanity condoning anything that brings a profit and does get them landed in jail.

    I confess I did not know that the company that can't produce, (unless they finally have and I don't know it.)

    decent drivers has fostered Linux. More power to them.

    What is wrong is wrong. Size doesn't come into it. What is wrong with Intel will be wrong with almost any publicly traded stock.

    They are controlled by the same forces, now I did say that did I not?

    So show me what inspired you to pick on an old man and accuse him of prejudiced? LOL

    Seriously, I plead innocent. "I never had sex with that hardware!"

    If it makes you guys feel better, I use to bite my fingernails.
    But I no longer beat my wife!

    You both get a D+ in creative reading.
    Now that I have proven my self innocent I'll re-read my posts and see if I can see what your going on about. I won't find anything, but it makes e sound fairer than I really am.



    Cloasters., K. I don't have a dog in this fight. I couldn't care less who made my hardware so long as i does what I thought I was asking it to do. instead of what I was asking it do

    So far both have failed to meet my criteria.

    In short you should both re read my posts and then most humbly beg of me my forgiveness.

    Or we could all run away together and forget this ever happened.LOL
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  9. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    This is wildly off topic, but a while back you ask of me if I had any regrets about having withdrawn from public life some 40 years ago.
    In truth since you ask it's been a recurring question for me. In Part because I got the feeling that you don't see where any good could come from it. ":O}

    " I took the path less taken and it's made all the difference to me."
    R.Frost.

    Most, when they say they wish to better themselves are talking about gain in the material world.
    Learn a new trade, get a degree that offers proof of their advancement.To find a soul mate and have kids.

    On the whole and in the rough this is the life of most men. As this is the life they were given and the talents they wish to cultivate are their own, No one should try to find fault with this and I do not.

    But there is a world as beyond external endeavors as physics is beyond greed and lust.

    It is in this world that I endeavor. The very root and premise of this world is as follows

    Right feeling
    Right thought
    Right action.

    It is lived in fear and trembling and it is lived alone, for the work before one who journeys upon this path
    can be stated as

    Self knowledge
    Self integration
    leading ultimately to self transformation.

    We who journey thus are seeking relief from that which is unworthy within ourselves.So we must come to know ourselves differently that most. Not in our strength but in our weakness. These "weaknesses" are at the very foundations upon which the self is built. One cannot simply wish them away.

    They must be rooted out one by one and constant vigil must be held lest one be tempted to look back.
    What fragments human personalities are lies we choose to believe at an early age that cannot be reconciled with objective truth. This has many unwholesome results, Fear, insecurities. alienation.

    Here the task becomes shadowy as we often don't see anyway to move against what is low and mean within ourselves. No frontal assault can prevail.

    "all beings have need of nourishment
    But for this we have to wait.
    The rain comes in it's own time."

    My whole way of life is founded on the primes that I can be a better person than I am.
    But how? First I have to know who I am. No easy task in a world of distractions.

    In solitude You are your only distraction. You are your every bad mood. You are the nagging cynic
    and the true believer. You alone in all this world can decide what is right.

    "Knights of the faith always stand alone,"

    Those who spend their lives in this way do not look outward for direction, only within.

    Isolation greatly cuts down on the mistakes one can make, greatly reduces the temptations all men face.

    Solitude leaves one very few places to hide and none that are comfortable.

    Boredom becomes a companion that gives warning that your eyes have closed again.
    Boredom only arises when we are not seeking, not seeing, not facing ourselves.

    I wanted to know the truth of me. I willingly forsook this world in favor becoming better than this world.

    So I have spent my time in waiting. Waiting is not the idle hope for tomorrow.
    But an alert conciseness that waits to receive what it knows must come.

    My life has few if any external markers. When one walks in darkness how does one know one is progressing?
    Perhaps[s only when one no longer desires progress.":O}

    In my life, the curse of my life, dyslexia, has been my greatest blessing.
    I wasn't swayed by flattery as I revived none!
    I wasn't corrupted by dazzling offers as I revived none!

    I wasn't subjected to peer pressure as I have live alone.

    "What do you see when you turn out the lights?
    I can't tell you but I know that its mine."
    Beatles

    I have had to cross deserts under a burning sun
    Because I am a desert.

    Emptying of all, that I may receive what is to come.
    That I may greet the now without reservations.

    At the heart of it all I strive for what cannot be earned
    only given,
    just a glimpse of my creator.

    And should that never come to pass?
    True waiting is to wait without a goal insight.

    I was made to look, but I may not ever see.
    But I'm truly content that I was made to look.":O}

    I simply don't know what I should regret, it was always just me,
  10. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    Daniel you stand guilty in your preference for the bigger monster in this competition. I could say that I become tired of your preference for stating that you are above it all but most of the time I think you are.

    Yet it's nice to see that like most of us, you are blind as to at least one your own prejudices.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Edit. Edit. Edit.
    I agree that I was too harsh when I said that Daniel~ stands guilty in his preference for Intel in this tiresome matter.

    All the same Dan seemed to be completely disregarding my opinion of the two corporations. Yes, who cares about my opinion about anything.

    Yet you continue to cavalierly disregard and disrespect what I posted. No respect, no respect. Or at least it most definitely feels like this.

    Dan, you are not a God. Please stop repeatedly insisting that only your opinion matters.

    Can I get an impartial judge to state her or his opinion on this important manner?
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  11. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    Bear in mind That I did offer you a chance to run away from this together. In a word, Give me a break!

    Ok this BULLSHIT has gone on long enough.
    George you have everything I have said on this subject right before you. Do me one big ass favor and cut and paste here anything I wrote that supports your accusation...When you realize you can not how about that apology.
    One or the other prove it or retract.

    Years ago Southern man pulled this shit. "Your doing something wrong now you guess what it is," George you were right there with him.I learned my lesson when it comes to humoring fools.

    I have not been in the lest obscure. I have posted my views quite clearly both what they are and why I hold them.

    I have stated repeatedly that I see no difference in the way they operate.

    You on the other hand have had the unmitigated Gaul to tell me that I'm a fan boy.
    and that my views are not really my views.

    What? I fear to speak the truth because Intel will get me?

    I don't like saying this to a long time friend but George your being stupid.
    Your cultivating a quarrel where there is none.

    YOU are the one with a preference as you say you like the underdog.

    My view is simple if they are both dogs who cares if, how, when or where they fight? NOT I!

    In my view your being blindly obstinate. Refusing to hear what I have said in the plainest English I know.

    Why is that. Why when I say I have no preference do you go on insisting I do?

    Why when you assert a preference and I do not adhere to I'm the fan boy?

    Your the one with a preference How can I be a fan boy for not having one. Your not making any sense that I can understand...that's probably not a good thing for you.

    These words were written in frustration.as I tire of repeating myself.
    Start cutting and pasting , prove your accusation or or be guilty of slander and misrepresentation.

    It easy, just pick the part where I totally show myself a fool and a tool for intel who cannot be trusted to say what he means and paste it here.

    The part where I'm a fan boy sucking up to Intel, post it here now.

    I'm sorry to do this to you, I have tried gentler means and gotten no where with you.
    So sober up and face reality.

    You have ZERO evidence to back up your claims. I know as I wrote the only evidence we have concerning my views,

    If you insist upon giving my views to me, then have the decency to offer your proof or admit you have none.

    At this point I expect that you should not just walk away from this, But hear what I am saying and give a good account of yourself.

    you are wrong. You are wronging me. You need to set this right.
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  12. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    "It will all clear up for you as soon as you except (sic) that AMD is Intel." From post number 15 in this thread.

    Above is the quotation from my original post.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Edit. Edit. Edit.

    This is a plain statement. You absolutely refuse to acknowledge its existence.
    This is the nub of my feeling annoyed with your overweening superiority.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Original post continues.

    No, AMD is certainly not Intel. Intel keeps on making defective CPU's with an endless list of basic security flaws. AMD has a handful of the same security flaws.

    Yet AMD is FIXING these problems with its processors. Intel does NOTHING about theirs and keeps on manufacturing defective processors and releases a few fixes that may or may not work in a resentful and delayed fashion. These are the actions of a corporation that says "up yours" to the world.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Edit. Edit. Edit. Why do you continue to completely DISREGARD my original statement???



    Dammit, it probably annoys me too much, wish I could shut up and stand pat. But I feel provoked because I get no notice of my opinion from Daniel~.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  13. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

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    I could, but it would provoke a pointless argument between old friends that I have no intention of losing due to hot words on an internet forum. Ultimately, this is just text on a screen.

    Anyway - the initial question was why you still need an nVidia card to get top graphics performance. Simply put: nV throw a lot more silicon at the problem. No amount of driver tweaking is going to replace transistor count.
  14. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    I should have followed Kaitain's lead on this. Mea culpa!

    The initial question of mine (Why the heck do AMD's video cards STILL suck when talking about drivers) showed AMD is a no-goodnik with this issue. Bad AMD!
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  15. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    I have to say you have disappointed me.
    You want me to let this go, even as you continue to assert your position yet refuse to provide the basis for those assertions in my writings.

    Come oh this is not rocket science. Either I posted as you SAY I did or I did not.

    I did not.

    If you wish to maintain that I did, it most certainly becomes a duty to provide, at lest for me, the posts from which you derive your view.

    Is this a matter of great import...Not if your right. If you aren't then you have wronged me.
    Weather that is a matter of any import I must leave to you.

    You are my friends. From my point of view you are both in error. How does a true friend respond when he believes his friends are in error. I believe a true friend would try to bring about a correction.

    I'm trying to both clarify what I have said from the very beginning without deviation and my objection to your responses.

    Simply put my objection is that I NEVER said anything like what I have been accused, I say accuse as you seem to me to continue to hold those position even as you refuse me proof of what you saying about what I wrote.
    How hard can it be to provide me with what you feel is in error.? by quoting me?

    "I could, but it would provoke a pointless argument between old friends that I have no intention of losing due to hot words on an internet forum. Ultimately, this is just text on a screen."

    I can assure you that I only engage in pointless arguments for the sake of humor.
    I have already assure you of your place in my affections.
    Now it seems I must assure you I'm not angry, but in argument i believe myself to be Fierce.
    For I only argue in search of truth.

    There is a truth here and if our friendships are to grow, then together we must find it.

    Neither of you are in any danger of losing my respect and even my admiration. You are my friends and have been from day one and will be until the sun sets upon me.

    Lets see if I can help you to at lest understand why I have made an issue of this.
    For me Ultimately These are not just words on a monitor.
    These words are all I have of either of you. From these words I must assemble as Image if you will of who it is I talk to. You must do the same.

    So when something that is not me, is presented as being me I fear...
    To be honest, I fear you will lose sight of me. I fear you will see me other than I am.
    That an image I have tried to keep sharp and clear will become fuzzy and undefined.
    Over time, you will lose sight of me and I will lose something of my ability to influence you.

    Kaitain I asked to be shown what you are on about, You declined. We should look at that..yes?
    You made an assertion I am not at peace with. I asked that you present evidence of that assertion.
    I hope I have given you the assurances that will allow you to do so now.

    So here is my basic problem with looking away from this. I have ALWAYS held my friends to accounts.
    I have always required of them the best truth they have. I steal constantly from that beauty and endeavor to make it my own.

    Here I find myself trying to discover which of our views is factually correct. I must say it is not a good sign that you both shy away from offering proof of your assertion.

    I for my part offer only what I have posted. I can find nothing in what I posted to support your claims as to what I posted. So I believe it falls upon you as my friends to supply that. That I may seek correction within myself.

    We are being tested. Our friendship is not. Let us rise to the occasion. Give me what I need to understand your view point. I will give you whatever you ask to help us bring this to proper conclusion.

    What gets swept under the rug over time rots the floor.

    Forgive me, but my friendship requires of me that I hold you to the same standard as I hold myself.
    Good gentleman it is time for you and I to stand and deliver.

    Prove or retract.

    Is it any wonder that I have so few friends?
  16. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    This seems more emotional than factual. A lot of assertions , little proof
    I delineated the ways in which they are the same. Born the same raised the same owned by the same people.
    operated upon by the same forces.

    One might point out that both of them are responding to their market position. If all you say were to prove to be correct, and that proof hasn't been offered; one could easily see where were their positions reversed nothing would change.

    Fanboy LOL

    Sorry that was well deserved but to cruel.":O}

    George you have a position you feel the facts warrant. I don't have a problem with that.
    I hold a position as well. It's just not the position you seem to want me to have.
    I'm sure in time you will learn to live with that, I have.
  17. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    I am most certainly above the fray. The world of men is unworthy of me. I deal only with those I find worthy.
    I am not as most of us are. I am not as you are. I thought you had figured that out. unlike most of us I have worked a lifetime to see with clarity.to speak only truth.

    I am living proof that the human mind can free itself.
    of despair, loneliness and a false sense of self that leads only to vanity and unhappiness..

    I cannot say better but most assuredly different. I simply don't share your blind spots because I don't have the same investment in not seeing.You live in and are preoccupied with the human world.

    I am not. I live with the world before man, I deal with the world of men, but do not really belong or partake of it.

    You see in my world I could never make assertions about another unless I could offer clear and convincing proof Proof I felt even they could accept Otherwise what's the use? Not actually knowing any others greatly helps me in this.":O}

    I live in my armor and stand ready every moment to do battle. On guard always against my own transgressions.That and waiting is about all I do whatever I am doing, I am doing this.

    This is how I know your both full of shit on this.":O}

    You see I actually read the posts. With the added advantage that I actually wrote the posts in question.

    I don't live with men. So what you see as me trying to make you look bad, is really just me trying to make you look.

    I know why it is important that you do. I know why you both think it's important that you don't .LOL

    "There it is like you made it
    do you love it or
    do you hate it?"
    You guys dumb enough to think were still talking about hardware? LOL

    When I meet with men I meet them in the open without an agenda of my own.
    I reach deep each time to assure myself I am giving them the best truth I know,

    It may not be their truth or the truth but it's the best truth I know.

    George I do not fear hidden prejudice on my part because I Know how such are formed and maintained and never let those mental mechanizes out of sight.

    For any prejudice to form. one must first give shit. You have to care about outcomes to bother cheating.

    What for some reason I haven't been unable to convey to you is that I just don't care enough about or at all either company or the world in which they exist to bother having a prejudice involving them.

    From my point of view your accusing me of preferring Mickey to Goofy. As I don't care about either I know your wrong. So why am I (What must seem to you) dragging this out..

    Why don't you tell me? ":O} If you can bring yourself to do so then we will have entered the eternal dialog.

    Or we can just run away together until you are old enough to speak your truth..LOL
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  18. Daniel~

    Daniel~ Chief BBS Administrator Staff Member

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    When you don't live in the world of men you get to say the most outlandish things!

    You get to define the world that defines you. You can let slip and weave the most intricate
    insights into the simplest truths.

    You get to hear silence speak your name.

    but further voices call us to return to remember men and the ways of men
    all these years passing without correction.

    All these wars beyond redemption.

    All those women in soft flirtation.

    speak to me ,but only from a distance. As I do not live there anymore.

    I have crossed to a further shore
    Where it is enough to be only little
    Just a little and no more.

    Men still wish to reach the stars that dwell within us
    but are afraid to face the Sun.
    I am a beginning that has only
    just begun.

    I have always chased the truth
    but it was all in fun.

    I can only say as I see and so I live alone.
    spirit dwells with me.and together we are home.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  19. Kaitain

    Kaitain Active Member

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    OK, but it'll take a little while. Last week wasn't too busy, this week is.
  20. cloasters

    cloasters Well-Known Member

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    As I see no acknowledgement of what I'm complaining about I think it is time for me to end participation in this thread.

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