The state of our nation

Kaitain said:
Oh I disagree! As #1 son started secondary school this year, he was most surprised to discover that a full lesson each week (out of 25) is called "values and ethics." We're having to put some effort in to subvert that nasty little piece of social engineering.

They're trying to teach the boy how to think, but using a flawed framework, in which facts can be used without context, and evidence can be discarded if inconvenient. Sadly for them, he's seen something of the world already, and so can tell when they're spinning bull manure.

So the problem isn't that they're not being taught how to think - they are, and very effectively. The problem is also that they're being taught what to think, and that's where the trouble starts.
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K.! you surprise me!! LOL

There is all the difference in the world between being taught what to think and being taught how to think...yes?

Your son can navigate his education because his parental units are critical thinkers. critical thinking can be surprisingly catchy and additive. But one must have a starting point.

When I was around 16 I had a falling out (Not a terribly serious one) but very heated with all three of the boys I grew up with. i forget the details. But the upshot was this. I was trying to persuade them that they were wrong, I was trying to reason with them.
At first they thought it was a joke. Then they thought that I was be being very tricky and dishonest.

The realization I came out of this with was this. My friends did not believe that truth could be found though reason. They saw reason as a trick of the mind. They saw things this way because they could not reason and saw those that could as con men.

This is the great sorrow of our masses. Anyone who can fix a car or plan for a harvest can be shown how to reason.But the instinct to reason in rare among men. For the simple, reason will always be seen as a magic trick.

Here is the glory of our masses, they can be taught if one is there to teach them. Their tragedy is that they are dependent on others to teach them and their teachers as often betray as reveal.
 
Daniel~ said:
There is all the difference in the world between being taught what to think and being taught how to think...yes?
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Well of course, that was the basic point I was trying to make.

It's a tough balance for governments - if your population's mental agility is too low, then your ability to keep up in the world technological/innovation/income race is sorely dented. Too many, and you may find yourself deposed.

The UK has applied a typical English fudge over the whole "we need people to like Britain" thing: where the US has you saluting the flag and singing the anthem pretty much from birth - and certainly before you're old enough to question why - we leave it until the kids are just cynical enough to know what's happening to them. (Note, the flag saluting stuff has caught on all across the far east: they had my kids doing it at school in China. It didn't take.)

Daniel~ said:
When I was around 16 I had a falling out (Not a terribly serious one) but very heated with all three of the boys I grew up with.
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I might have done something very similar, at a similar age, with several good friends of mine. A story for another thread, but if you ever wanted to know where my vitriolic dislike of religion came from, I'll tell you what became of those lads...
 
I think there is often a moment of transition, especially but not excursively among those who are mentally active,

When to go one's own way is to go away.

As I was dumbfounded by their mistrust of reason, or rather their distrust of my reasoning.
The whole point of reason is that anyone can understand it. They saw reason as a process "smart people" employ to get the less intelligent to do what they wanted them to do.

While I can't actually fault their direct perception, in youth we are almost always given reasons without the accompanying reasoning. They get away with it because..well damn parents were big back then!
I was trying to tell them that reason belongs to them!

Mind you I wasn't trying to get them to do anything. Nothing hinged on the out come of of our rough debate..
They were head shy. You know head head shy? If a dog it hit to many times on the head with a mans hand, he will naturally shy away of any hand that's offered.

When ever thinking got started up in their lives they had always gotten the short end of the stick.

Nothing I said could convince them that they could pick up that stick and wield it to good effect in their lives.

Now at the end of the divergence, looking back, I'm not at all sure I was right.

In the I-Ching the symbol for positive influence is a nesting crane it's foot held just above it's fledged chick.

When one ponders upon the image provided things begin to present themselves. A bird is helpless on the ground. Yet that is the very field of action that it must protect and defend not just the next generation, but all the generations to come,

The crane isn't doing anything. It simply stands one foot shading the chick. The Crane must rely upon it's inner connection to the chick to make it's influence felt.

The Ching then applies this to men. It counsels that any deliberate attempt to influence others is by it's nature selfish and bound to be limited in it's effect and without duration. Real lasting influence is gained
only when there is an inner connection. This connection is expressed in friendship that seeks only union.

If any attempt is made to have or exert such an influence then every thing shifts to the consciences plain and sincerity is lost.

In closing it points out that influence is not always possible..As every bird comes to know...

"First there must be a spark within."

Looking back, I'm inclined to think that spark was lacking.

They wanted to know what they could get out of reason I was trying to give myself to reason.

We grew up within 3 hundred yards of each other sat beside each other from 3rd grade to 10th. The passed all the classes I failed and we lived on different planets.

"The Superior man comes only into his own domain." ":O}
 
Kaitain said:
Well of course, that was the basic point I was trying to make.

It's a tough balance for governments - if your population's mental agility is too low, then your ability to keep up in the world technological/innovation/income race is sorely dented. Too many, and you may find yourself deposed.

The UK has applied a typical English fudge over the whole "we need people to like Britain" thing: where the US has you saluting the flag and singing the anthem pretty much from birth - and certainly before you're old enough to question why - we leave it until the kids are just cynical enough to know what's happening to them. (Note, the flag saluting stuff has caught on all across the far east: they had my kids doing it at school in China. It didn't take.)

I might have done something very similar, at a similar age, with several good friends of mine. A story for another thread, but if you ever wanted to know where my vitriolic dislike of religion came from, I'll tell you what became of those lads...
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Whaa, poor, poor governments! Knee-jerk reaction, apologies. Of course we need governments, I'm simply quite perturbed after reading an article that relates the experience of attending a Trump "rally" recently. The pure ignorance of the attendees was breathtaking. Much worse was their seething anger at anything "not Trump."

I'm afraid for the decent, thinking people of my country. The Trumpettes are a minority, but they believe with all their dark hearts that he is actually their savior. We indeed have trouble in river city.

The trouble is less dramatic in your fair land. Yet I read of lying news sources that love the Tories far too much. "Brexit" seems to be one terrible idea for the man in the street in Britain. Yet those at the top will probably be successful in mis-pointing the finger of blame right back at the little people.

At the same time, I can easily see your nation's dislike of the EU. But splitting away from it seems likely to cause more pain than it's worth?
 
Perception is the determinate. What you see is what you have. No more no less.

what does it matter how much you may be loved or hated, if you remain unaware of it.?

We love or hate according to how we see a thing. Everything depends on how we see our lives.

I see my own as being in need of fulfillment, so that is what I work upon. Actualizing what may be possible.
 
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