I've got to admit, the Zen people have the best stories.":O}

Daniel~

Daniel~

Chief BBS Administrator
Staff member
A young monk was in Crisis, for young monks are always in crisis....it goes with the terror and surrounding landscapes.

Having on numerous occasions tried to talk to his wife he found that he simply could not make a dent in what he found to be her reprehensible behavior.

He loved his wife and it troubled him greatly to see her going down a dark path

"So what's your major malfunction asked the old abbot,"
The story poured out of the monk without any further coaxing.

"Every time I wish to give something to those who are poorer than a married monk
My wife carries on for days about throwing good money away on useless people!"

The Abbot told the monk to go about his day and that he would take care of this


As the monks wife was sweeping up and out the door she looked up to see an old man glaring at her obviously very angry.
Before she could speak the Abbott thrust a gnarled and twisted fist in her face so that it was all she could see,
"What is this" he yelled at her!"What is this!!
Shaken she sputtered out
"It's a deformity!"
Then the Abbott flatted his hand holding his fingers ridged, his palm unyielding
as a brick and again thrust it into her face.

"And what is this"
he shouted at her!"and "What is this" he bellowed shaking from his head to his feet

"Another type of deformity" she weeped,
her continence suddenly that of a child in bereavement

The Abbott smiled at her and gently nodding his head came foreword until their two foreheads just met ,He whispered a hurried prayer and then was off to buy 50 pounds of rice.

The monk's wife never again complained of her husband's generously. But instead sent her very best wishes with every penny.
 
I dunno, seems pretty straightforward to me, but being as it's zen, that most likely means I've completely missed the point. :)
 
You will have to hazard Telling us what you've seen before we can hazard who needs a new prescription and who just needs to start wearing their glasses.
Come on now attachment really is a terrible thing to waste!
Use it to polish the lens.

besides I'm to lazy to figure out a subtle way of... of stealing your eyes.
So just tell me what you see damn it! ":O}

(Now normally one could hope that there was at lest one right Answer
But as this IS Zen we can only hope to produce creatively wrong answers.

I'd really like to hear from folk in order to discuss this story, as several things about it DO trouble me.":O}
 
Daniel~ said:
(Now normally one could hope that there was at lest one right Answer
But as this IS Zen we can only hope to produce creatively wrong answers.

I'd really like to hear from folk in order to discuss this story, as several things about it DO trouble me.":O}
Click to expand...

Well, OK, but at least TRY to be gentle. I like to think I'm at least TRYING to be enlightened, even if I fail miserably at it most of the time, LOL.

Daniel~ said:
"Every time I wish to give something to those who are poorer than a married monk
My wife carries on for days about throwing good money away on useless people!"
Click to expand...
So, this seems pretty simple; the wife is giving the monk grief about the money he gives to poor people. Now, granting that 'poor' has different meanings to different people, we're going to assume in this context that we are talking about people who don't have the wherewithal to feed, clothe and/or house themselves properly. More specifically, she's referring to 'useless' people. I'm guessing that she defines useless as "those who aren't working or otherwise doing something <I> deem to be of value". Note that I'm necessarily making assumptions here, but as the story seems intended as a commentary on the virtue of generosity, I think the assumptions are likely valid.

Daniel~ said:
As the monks wife was sweeping up and out the door she looked up to see an old man glaring at her obviously very angry.
Before she could speak the Abbott thrust a gnarled and twisted fist in her face so that it was all she could see,
"What is this" he yelled at her!"What is this!!
Shaken she sputtered out
"It's a deformity!"
Then the Abbott flatted his hand holding his fingers ridged, his palm unyielding
as a brick and again thrust it into her face.

"And what is this"
he shouted at her!"and "What is this" he bellowed shaking from his head to his feet

"Another type of deformity" she weeped,
her continence suddenly that of a child in bereavement
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that the Abbott is pointing out to her that the simple hand comes in many forms and varieties, yet still has a use and a purpose, even when deformed from its 'natural' or at-rest shape. It is in fact the deformation that makes it useful. Likewise with the shaking of the body, it is not a 'natural' motion in the sense that it's not the state the body assumes normally, but it is still useful.

In other words, everything serves a purpose and has a use, even if it isn't apparent to us. To refuse to give alms to those in need because they are 'useless' is ignorance.

Finally, I'm assuming the fact that Abbott was going off to buy 50 pounds of rice means that HE was planning on putting action to words.

I've honestly never been very good at the 'Zen' thing. As I said before, I've probably missed the entire point of the story. At least, that always seems to be the case whenever I hear stories about teachers talking to students.
 
I think we seen much of the same thing...how often does that happen! ":O}

Briefly. To always be giving a deformity, to never be giving, a deformity. In giving and receiving we must go with the time. If we are inflexible we miss the right time..

This story reminds me of a comedy routine, I forget whose.The up shot is that he was never at all impressed by Lassie running 5 miles leaping canyons and walking tight ropes, dogging thru traffic to "Go get Help Lassie!"

What blew him away were the people! Lassie would bark and they be "Is Timmy in trouble Lassie?"
Lassie would bark again and some else would go like: "Is granddad with with him?"

And three more bark barks and they had a phone number and address.

Me? I would like to think I would have called the guy a doctor! That he was having a fit or just hit his hand with a hammer or I don't know what all!

Still. I bet the beggars liked this guy and that's more than good enough for me! ":O}
Yet the monks wife, if she was smart enough to work her way though the Abbott's pantomime fingers thing
Why hadn't she learned to hide her true feelings like everybody else!?

Remember these stories enlighten, they don't have to be real! They never stub their toes!":O}
 
Daniel~ said:
Still. I bet the beggars liked this guy and that's more than good enough for me! ":O}
Yet the monks wife, if she was smart enough to work her way though the Abbott's pantomime fingers thing
Why hadn't she learned to hide her true feelings like everybody else!?

Remember these stories enlighten, they don't have to be real! They never stub their toes!":O}
Click to expand...

Sometimes (and I'm speaking from personal experience here), we become so used to a certain way of thinking that as things change, we fail to follow the changes through to their logical conclusions. This is particularly true when we succumb to the 'well everyone else is doing it' school of thought.
 
Are wee talking about our marriages again? We said we weren't going to do that anymore...":O}
 
Gizmo...I just real;zed in reading your post that my friends seem to share something in common.

You seem not to realize what fine and exceptionable and people you are.
My best understanding of Zen can be summed up in this truth. "Action is eloquence."..

Zen also "seems" to be walking a different path, a different tradition than I.
I'll settle for for being a completely moral person.
Rather than a sudden awaking I try to apply myself to Gradual Progress.;..at being a moral person.

I've never seen you make a foolish move. Stay on your path. What called to you then still calls to you now.

But I sense Your feeling a need for a better structure to tie the things your life has shown together with.

I don't know if I've mentioned that The man who formally taught me the I-Ching was a Christian.

I asked him how that meshed. I'm mean this guy didn't know what half-way meant!

He was a profound Christian. He was a profound sage of the I-Ching. He spent time with the Tarot cards as well.

He told me that Christendom has never taken a stand on the oracular one way or the other.

I can tell you they share the same morality. There nothing UN-Christian in the I-Ching.

Which is to say, nothing Christ himself would not affirm as upholding the spirit of his law however they might differ in the letter of the law. Neither Christ nor the I-Ching thought all that much of the letter of the law anyway. Nor does Zen ":O}

If your interested you can get a "George approved' Cop[y of the I-Ching for $16 bucks and we can examine Chinese thought together.":O}
 
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Daniel~ said:
You seem not to realize what fine and exceptionable and people you are.
My best understanding of Zen can be summed up in this truth. "Action is eloquence."..
Click to expand...

I......umm.........how do I respond to this? LOL

At some level, I know that I'm more intelligent than average. I also think that I am more passionate than average. But I truly don't think of myself as 'fine and exceptional'. I DO recognize that the sin of pride is something I am at least as vulnerable to as anyone else, and so I make a conscious effort to try to keep my pride in check. I'm getting better at this than I used to be. Used to, I'd get to feeling my pride and the universe would remind me who was in charge (usually about once/year). My last reminder from the universe was quite some time ago. I've also found that the universe no longer has to hit me on the head with a sledgehammer for me to get the idea; usually a small mallet suffices. ;)

Daniel~ said:
I've never seen you make a foolish move. Stay on your path. What called to you then still calls to you now.
Click to expand...

Probably the most important lesson I've learned in my life is to trust my instincts. They are usually right. Hardly surprising, given how much evolution has gone into getting me here. ;)

Daniel~ said:
But I sense Your feeling a need for a better structure to tie the things your life has shown together with.

I don't know if I've mentioned that The man who formally taught me the I-Ching was a Christian.

I asked him how that meshed. I'm mean this guy didn't know what half-way meant!

He was a profound Christian. He was a profound sage of the I-Ching. He spent time with the Tarot cards as well.
Click to expand...

I've actually spent a little time with the I-Ching (not nearly as much as you, obviously). I've studied a bit of Wicca, and I even spent a little time studying with a Druid. I've read portions of the Quran. I've read some of Socrates, Aristotle, Confucious, Sun Tsu.

More than anything else, though, I've always gone my own way. Even as a small child, I was always seeking to understand the WHY of things, trying to figure out what made the world tick.

So yes, I'm nominally Christian, but not STRICTLY Christian. And mostly, to be honest, that is as much a matter of convenience as anything. Christianity is handy and seems to mostly provide a guideline for a set of values that mirrors what I've come to on my own.

I'm not, RIGHT NOW, at a place where I want to make a SERIOUS study of the I-Ching. But if and when that day comes, I'll surely keep you in mind. :D

Which is not to say that I'm not still searching, just that the direction of my search isn't leading me THERE right now.
 
As you are content with what your doing, then how could I be otherwise? ":O}
 
This thread or the whole of our NEW Fear and trembling section?
Before you answer, there's good chance you will be fined for your negligence! ":O}

OR

I thought you said George couldn't read this!!! LOL
 
Hey I just wasted another day on tears. We both need to treat ourselves better.
 
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