The state of our nation

[Daniel~]

The Dems lost the 2016 election because they had nothing to offer. The DNC still has nothing to offer. Talk about an oligarchy!
Rather than address their catalog of shortcomings--the worst one is that they care about the rich and not one iota for the poor, they began chanting "Russia, Russia, Russia!"

Worse still---it's working. All "Russia, Russia, Russia!" All of the time.

Americans should take a closer look at American history. Too many folks know next to nothing.

I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry but any sane population Would have accepted "She's not Trump" as being more than enough incentive.

Never liked Hillary always thought of her as a mediocrity. But anyone claiming that she was not a better choice. is using their brain for a chair to sit upon.

I cannot accept that the Dems care nothing for the poor. Name one thing the poor ever got from the GOP.

Social security, welfare, food stamps,medical all were opposed in their time by the GOP.

All were advanced by the Dems.

Are they corrupt, you bet. are they better than the GOP...how come you have to ask me that!?

At lest Hillary knew who our enemies are. She cheated Bernie out of his shot at the title.

So go Trump? Not a chance! You may not have noticed but the difference between corrupt and just plain crazy is rather large.

As large as climate change as big as nuclear warfare. as insidious as treason. Hillary told lies, but not every day!!

in my book Anyone who thinks there's not distinction is a fool. In this life we need to understand the difference between bad and good. We also need to understand the difference between bad and worse.

Something to think about while the Republicans burn down the world.

As far as Russia, Russia, Russia Goes..Where have you been? Russia is attacking the very foundation of our lives. And Trump is thanking them and inviting their further participation. The GOP has done NOTHING to curb their incursion.

And your still bitching about Hillary?

It's time to weigh the consequences.. Is Hillary hurting us now?
Is Hillary the problem we have to deal with now?

Then stop making excuses for the single worst vote in American history.

We put a pathological liar who believes that Kim and Putin are great men whom he wishes to emulate in our highest office. and you think our mistake was Hillary?

We've got to know the difference between bad and worse when we never get a shot at the best.

 

[danrok]

The Clinton's have made 100s of millions since leaving office.

Surely that's all the payments done for all the favors they did whilst in office. The payments for "speaking engagements" are just the loop hole for bribes.

They're just as corrupt as the Trumps.

Perhaps Hillary would have been the least worse option, but we'll never know for sure.

 

[cloasters]

Ms Clinton cheered for the aerial attack on Libya. She was delirious about the horrible death of Qaddafi.

If you can't see my objection to the destruction of Libya...

Sorry, I don't see what I, that's I, am supposed to see as a person with Democratic or democratic values. Clintons, that's the older two of them are plutocrats just as much as Trump is.
Yes, they are lesser autocrats, but that's not enough of a virtue for me to consider voting for ANY of them.

Do I dislike Trump more after his two years in the White House? I can answer that in the affirmative. Yet I don't have a Clinton in office to judge side by side with this Mark of the Beast.

Do I dislike Trump intensely? Absolutely, but not for the reasons that too many of us espouse. Why? Because thanks to terribly restricted education and restricted main stream media far too many people are not aware of their ignorance.

Breaking through this what in far too many cases is willful ignorance is beyond my capabilities. I have tried to in the past on our board, most folks leave no comments on my point of view. That certainly is their right. So comment me out. If only I could resist posting my point of view, life would be easier for me.

Ahh, an easy life. Probably overrated.

 

[Daniel~]

Let me try this out on you. If Clinton is what' bothering you. She lost. she is not in office. For that we can give thanks. But if you seriously think that Hillary's corruption is even close to Trumps, then your not Black, your not Muslim and your not a women.

The only reason your talking about Hilary is that your not being impacted as these people are being impacted.
For Christ sake what does it take to get you to deal with what is happening now, and let go of the past. She is over with Trump is in charge. Trump is in volition of a dozen laws is betraying us to Russia and you stand there trying to tell me he saved me from Hillary.??

I am beginning to understand for the first time how Trump got elected.

Why can't you see that even if Hillary was Satan himself....IT DOES NOT MATTER SHE IS NOT PRESIDENT!
SHE IS NOT THE PROBLEM WE ARE FACED WITH.

All your doing is making excuses, clinging to the past and old grudges, Bad Hill bad bad Hill.

Is Hillary in charge. Can cursing her get you one damn thing you want?

If I were to agree to every thing you assert would that change a God Damn thing?

So give your emotions to lost causes if you like. But while your doing that Trump is destroying your nation in ways Hillary never even thought of. The Clinton's want money. Trump wants carnage.

He's desperately looking for a war to bury his crimes in.

But honestly I just have to say we are not even close to an agreement here. Lucky Trump hey!

Sorry not to be able to reach consensus. Our points of view are to far apart.

Just tell me this what do you hope to gain? You want the whole world to rise up and condemn a woman that is no longer of any consequence,

Tell me who you think will benefit from that? Besides Trump I mean.

And no I don't think we've ever seen corruption that actually led to treason.
No I don't think Clinton would be kissing Putin's ass, starting a war with Iran or encouraging racism.
My God we have never seen anything like Trump before.
I'm sorry. I hope I have conveyed over time the high esteem and respect I have for those who are here.

But these are not views I can respect. As much as I respect those who seem to hold them.

 

[Gizmo]

But these are not views I can respect. As much as I respect those who seem to hold them.

Just a couple of observations:

1) You spend far too much time not engaging with people, IMO. Spend some time on Facebook or Twitter. It will give you a whole new perspective. Conservatives aren't the only ones allowing their emotions to run wild.

2) Telling people they are idiots for what they believe (which is, after all, an opinion, however factually based you believe it to be) is going to elicit the precise emotional response you are criticizing, because it is an argument based in emotion.

You may say "but I haven't called anyone an idiot". Haven't you? Right here? When you say you cannot respect someone's views, you have effectively indicated that they have nothing of value to say, and are therefore unworthy of your time. In short, an idiot.

You have cut off the possibility of further discourse. That is the heart of our entire problem in our country IMO; neither side believes the other has anything of value to say.

 

[cloasters]

The Republicans had, have, and will have no cure for the Trump. I call out the Democratic Party because they are the only ones in power that could have a cure for Trump.

They manifestly have no cure for the Trump. They secretly have too much love for many, many things that Trump has done.
I'm not saying that people who consider themselves Democrats like what Trump has done. I'm saying that the Democratic Party does like many aspects of Trumpism.

Heresy on my part? It SHOULD be heresy but I'm afraid it's not. Reminding us here that the Republican Party has no cure for Trump, only the so-called Democratic Party does. And they refuse to take concrete steps, with a passion. Bernie may have been able to turn things around. He was more popular than Trump. The Democratic Central Committee, aka the real power within the Democratic Party, killed his candidacy dead. They preferred that Trump win rather than Bernie Sanders. Must I repeat this bare and obvious truth?

"Russia, Russia, Russia!" all of the time is weak and tired tea.

Enough said.

 

[Kaitain]

But these are not views I can respect. As much as I respect those who seem to hold them.

They're also not the views presented, at least not on this thread

With the last election, you were in the somewhat unique position of having both major parties propose candidates who were unpopular from the get-go - while normally people discuss approval ratings, it's worth remembering that both candidates were such poor choices that they started with disapproval ratings, roughly 52% in the case of Trump and 38% for Clinton. For whatever reason, the majority of the US voting population seems to forget that you have half a dozen significant political parties and it always comes down to picking the perceived lesser of two evils.

In actual fact, Clinton won the popular vote, but lost due to being completely incapable of talking to poor white voters, thus losing a fair number of states in the middle bit of the country that carry quite a number of Electoral College votes. A couple of States different and I can imagine the argument would've gone:

Clinton is in volition of a dozen laws abusing her power and mishandling classified information while in office and you stand there trying to tell me she saved me from Trump.?

The sad thing, I think, is that having Russia has pop up making lots of noise and smoke, gives you in the US something external to blame - "we got Trump, and it's all Putin's fault" is an easy, and wrong, diagnosis.

Russia is directly and obviously meddling in the affairs of other countries*. There's a good chance that Russian money swung our Brexit vote, a mistake that's going to take a generation or more to rectify. Russia's desperate to appear strong and united in the face of international turmoil, for no other reason than that it allows Putin to keep his grip on an increasingly fractious Russia. Putin's Russia is suffering from declining living standards**, falling health and education levels, and massive corruption that affect almost all social classes. It's something that his oligarchic autocracy is not capable of responding to, as to do so would admit that Putin is actually culpable for much of the problem***. So Russia's incredible spy and propaganda network goes into action - the longer they can deflect attention to the rest of the world, the longer they have before their own inevitable crisis hits. They've gone full "bread-and-circuses," and we're the circus. Only, there's no bread.

What's sad about the whole thing is that, our respective nations are facing very significant problems, both internal and external at exactly the same time as the centre of global power moves south and east, limiting our ability just to brazen it out. Russia's not the cause of these, neither is immigration or globalisation or any of the rest of the clutch of excuses we're given to disguise the fact that the way we're administering our countries isn't working the way we want it to. Blaming Johnny Foreigner for our woes, embarking on trade war and outright protectionism has never actually worked to make us richer. But it makes a great emotional sales pitch.

And that's what people bought.

* Every country perpetually spying on, and manipulating every other country, just the Russians have decided for whatever reason to be very unsubtle about it.
** Being strictly correct, Russian GDP fell steeply in the '90s, recovered in the 00's, and has remained effectively stagnant this decade - at about the level they were in 1985. Russia's going nowhere while the rest of the world bypasses it. Its leaders know it and its people suspect it, but are still prepared to buy into a "the West is out to get us" narrative. But even that's wearing thin.
*** Russia's boom in the '00s happened despite Putin, not because of him.

 

[Daniel~]

Just a couple of observations:

1) You spend far too much time not engaging with people, IMO. Spend some time on Facebook or Twitter. It will give you a whole new perspective. Conservatives aren't the only ones allowing their emotions to run wild.

2) Telling people they are idiots for what they believe (which is, after all, an opinion, however factually based you believe it to be) is going to elicit the precise emotional response you are criticizing, because it is an argument based in emotion.

You may say "but I haven't called anyone an idiot". Haven't you? Right here? When you say you cannot respect someone's views, you have effectively indicated that they have nothing of value to say, and are therefore unworthy of your time. In short, an idiot.

You have cut off the possibility of further discourse. That is the heart of our entire problem in our country IMO; neither side believes the other has anything of value to say.

These are views i can respect. I don't agree but i see where your coming from.
1. You don't ignore fact.
2. Hermits don't as a rule engage with people. The difference in point of view precludes agreement.
3. If I don't tell fools they are being fools what the hell good am I?
4.The reason hermits retreat is that the vast majority of folks are in fact fools.
5. Fools are in fact unworthy of my time. But I give it to them any way. You never know when a fools is going to wake up.
6. Having the views I do, I do well to stray away from people.
7. The last person in the world you want to call a fool is a fool. The tend to get very angry.
8. A Fool is not an idiot. Idiots have no choice. A fool is is one that has the information but refuses to use it.
9 as a rule idiots are more lovable than fools. They don't seek agreement. They don't offer bullshit excuses for what they know is irrational.
10. Discourse only become possible between two people when both parties agree upon the facts.
11.We live in different worlds. for the most part, I live in a sacred world. One that is not owned by nor for the most part known to men. Most people spend there time in profane pursuits that leave little time for rational pursuits. I'm better off alone.
12. Living in a sacred world, I have come to know there is as much fool in me as in most others, The huge un-get-overable difference is that I know we are fools.
13. There is no hostility on my part. I'm not angry, or disappointed in any one..
14 I see myself in this regard as a sign post to say all who go this way are fools and will be made to pay, by a world that, unlike myself has zero affection for fools.

Chris I have never believed that all points of view have validity. This would mean that facts don't matter. They do.

I have seldom believed that the person opposite actually sees those facts as I do. As binding, as obligatory As what must be recognized if we are to greet the real world rather than our delusions based upon our desires.bigotry and fears.

In short I am a warrior and I live mostly among pimps. This can hardly please any , warrior or pimps.
This is not empty vanity. I have worked by ass off in fields most refuse to recognize as belonging to another. Belonging to the Divine.

So yes I make a difference between myself and most of my neighbors.

"this often makes a man seem proud and distant from humanity. But as active duties no longer bind me to this world of men...it does little harm."
Paraphrasing the I -Ching.

These have always been the terms under which I can properly engage with men.
Naturally I don't expect others to understand or appreciate why I do what I do.
We (Mankind and Myself) for the most part serve different masters.
We drink from different waters, we tread different paths we have in fact different destinations.

We are simply standing in the same station, passing the time together, but we wait for different trains.
I see these things because that's my job. I say these things because I seek a common understanding.
Because I don't believe that what most men do is at all related to what I am to do.

I don't really expect agreement with men. But in some times and in some places we can understand one another, can understand what separates us in not fortune nor fate, but folly.

I knew who Trump was in the first instant he appeared in the world. He and his followers are my mortal enemies. They can be no agreement between they and I . I oppose them unto death.

That I don't actively oppose them is because there is no need to. They ALWAYS destroy themselves.
Trump and his followers will destroy themselves and take a good many good men with them.

My opposition is fundamental. The very law of my being requires this opposition of me.
These are not the people I am here to serve. If I am to serve people at all it is from seclusion and isolation that help must come.

I am a different man and I follow a different law of being. I perforce must leave it to those who know a bit about me to say weather they can make any use of what I feel I have to offer....A different point of view.

I don't have to agree with someone to love them and seek their highest good with them.
I do have to speak the only truth I know.

To support trump is to advocate evil and make of you my enemy. I don't really care if trump and associates don't agree or like me, We as I have said serve different masters.

Now you know what lies in the darkness of my cave. You may call what you wish. I perceive it as the light within me awaiting birth. I defend it's truth by trying to act in accord with the law, To live in accord with the love that gave us law.

It's simply the fact that most do not. I live in isolation because men are isolated from me, not me from them.
Men tell lies I do not. Men seek to harm one another I do not. Men seek wealth I do not.

What I do, do is not for men nor yet for myself. I serve a master who who demands nothing of me save this.

That I should fear and love God above the fear of men or my affection for them.

Love of God has made enemies for me that I never sought. But Neither do I shy away from battle.

"It's not easy living on your own"
(Rolling Stones)

My truth is simple, I see what other men do not and so do what other men do not. When I meet others like me I can bring them joy. For I can bring them union.

In short no compromise with evil is possible. I must be rooted out and exposed for what it is.

I really don't have any doubts as to why I was taken by my life into solitude.
At this point you should be saying
"Neither do we!!" LOL

 

[Daniel~]

* Every country perpetually spying on, and manipulating every other country, just the Russians have decided for whatever reason to be very unsubtle about it.
** Being strictly correct, Russian GDP fell steeply in the '90s, recovered in the 00's, and has remained effectively stagnant this decade - at about the level they were in 1985. Russia's going nowhere while the rest of the world bypasses it. Its leaders know it and its people suspect it, but are still prepared to buy into a "the West is out to get us" narrative. But even that's wearing thin.
*** Russia's boom in the '00s happened despite Putin, not because of him.

We are in agreement for the most part. What I would seek to contribute is this. In knowingly and willfully destroying the planet, mankind has moved out of the realm of the morally indifferent into the realm of active evil.

I cringe every time I hear someone say we need to find a profitable way to change what we do. When looking for profit from natures death is what brought us here.

No one in politics has the balls to say that we must sacrifice what we want if we are to continue to have what we need. Like spoiled children they refuse any suggestion that we must give up our way of destroying what is to get what we need to go on.

To mankind I would say this of what is to come.

"You can't always get what you want
But if you try real hard
sometimes you just might find
you get what you need."
(Stones.)

 

[Kaitain]

No one in politics has the balls to say that we must sacrifice what we want if we are to continue to have what we need. Like spoiled children they refuse any suggestion that we must give up our way of destroying what is to get what we need to go on.

Cultures and values change. After 30 years of wall to wall education, today's youth (at least in the UK, "on average") earn, eat, drink, smoke, shag, take drugs, reproduce, travel and generally consume less than my generation did at the same age. They are horribly worthy and frightfully dull, but are probably the future the world needs, even if I'll be glad to leave it in 2063 or so...

A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

 

[Daniel~]

I just gotta say I'm in love with your quote!
Any way we can persuade them to die a little faster?
Hey! Someone had to ask! ":O}

 

[Daniel~]

In a recent discussion I alluded to the movie "The day the earth stood still"
When it was first produced in the 50's No one in Hollywood dare speak their minds, McCarthyism was the horror of the day. So they gave us a perceptive of our self's as if from another world.

In the modernize version an old man puts forth this observation...
"At the presapise (sp) people change."
(Sorry I could not work out the spelling ...at the edge of the cliff people change.

As we age we become accustom to the most awful things.

The eyes of the young are merciless in their honesty. There is no surer way to garner contempt from the young that to speak with a forked tongue. To speak in ways that don't conform to your actions.in short Hipocracey just really pisses them off!

It is my believe that when the fires no longer die in winter and the floods rage thought the year
The young will act to save themselves from what age can no longer allow itself to see...our corruption.

Let us hope we endure their bitterness. Let us hope they can re-create what we threw away. in our folly.

 

[Daniel~]

The Dems lost the 2016 election because they had nothing to offer. The DNC still has nothing to offer. Talk about an oligarchy!
Rather than address their catalog of shortcomings--the worst one is that they care about the rich and not one iota for the poor, they began chanting "Russia, Russia, Russia!"

Worse still---it's working. All "Russia, Russia, Russia!" All of the time.

Americans should take a closer look at American history. Too many folks know next to nothing.

I'll leave it at that.

Sorry I can't buy this argument. it presupposes that the Republicans did have something to offer.

I don't know what you want George. Politics is about power. People who seek power are always going to serve their own best interests to the extent that they know what their best interests are.

The most we should hope for is that they share that interest with the many. Sometimes you sound like you believe that politicos are different from the rest. We are a shitty people. We have been for as long as we have been here. We greeted the folks who lived here with continent wide Genocide.

Our cultural and economic foundation was slavery and murder most foul...

Yet here we are screaming that there is no justice for the white man.... That's about as far as we have come as a people. Morally speaking we are waiting for the minorities to force us into a better behavior, we refuse to do this for our selves or even for our own children.

So how good a leader will we except?
Americans don't look for goodness in a leader or we would have that. We look for personal advantage.
We look to vent our splines upon one another because that is who we are. Who we have always been.

Few know this and fewer still like it. But Jesus himself said:
"I come not for the many but for the few."
Yep, Jesus said most of us are going to hell.

You don't get the few by popular acclaim or elections. You get the majority view if your lucky. For the corrupt must always rely upon a lucky chance.
So I've never held high hopes for those we elect, we have 400 congresspersons and only one Bernie. One Elisabeth warren.

There are sure to be a very few others.

In a democracy the best we can hope for is that the common view prevails.

Having said that:
Trumpy is the low point of our electoral experience. He's as bad as one man can be.
We have disgraced ourselves by voting for one who is less than we are when we aren't all that much to begin with.

To be honest I don't respect the common man as he has no respect for himself. Look at where he has fallen to this time.

If you want honest politicians, become one.
I'm not ragging on you George. I just want you to agree with me.LOL

 

[Gizmo]

These are views i can respect. I don't agree but i see where your coming from.
Chris I have never believed that all points of view have validity. This would mean that facts don't matter. They do.

In short I am a warrior and I live mostly among pimps. This can hardly please any , warrior or pimps.

I'm sorry, I was mistaken; I was under the impression you were attempting to educate. One cannot educate by alienating one's intended audience.

Look, I'm not attempting to judge (at least, that isn't my intention). I'm only making an observation. If you are content with where you are, that is all that is really required.

 

[Daniel~]

I am teaching, are you learning? LOL

The very lest any one who aspires to teach should have is a firm grasp upon what is true.
If I alienate then consider the possibility it is not I but truth that gives offense.

I have given freely of what I have to give. Each must decide if what I have to give is valuable or worth having.

Most have already put that to rest. They prefer that things be easy, but "the truth is a hard sayer."

I don't say what I do because I yearn to injure people. But because people are injuring themselves.

In my experience people don't want anything to do with me or my truth. Like Jesus I come here not for the many but for the few. Is why limited exposure never troubled me to much.":O}

Please consider that when you place a rains upon a horse you alienate him.
When you correct a child you alienate him. You separate him from his excuse to do wrong.
is why parents are just so popular with their kids.":O}

When wrong is done we seek corrective measures. These should not be applied in anger, but they should not be avoided either.
Nothing is easier to avoid or harder to accomplish than breaking the will of a spoiled child. This is not to be confused with breaking a child's spirit.

I'm talking about willful misbehavior. I see the vast majority of people as having failed to grow up.As never having accepted responsibility for their actions. Of thinking that if others agree then they must be right.

Most never seek excellence within themselves.Never correct the mistakes of their youth.

So I oppress them. Just being me oppresses them. I become the heavy weight they must bear if they are to be near me. Most show the good sense to run away. So I let them.
Those who remain at my side I try in every way I can to oppress them. For oppression turns a man inward and inward is where men must go if they are to find themselves.

I have lived with oppression few have known. Is why I know what few know,
Our nature is such that we must be broken if we wish to remain whole. We must be shaken in the face of eternity and humbled to our core.

Our spirits and natures war and contend against each other until our natures learn submission to our spirits.
They learn this submission when spirit places herself beneath our natures and raises it up to shine in it's original purity.
This is me trying to raise you up. How men hate to hear that! for it oppresses them":O}

Can you hear me now? I'm trying to be heard. But this might not be what you are trying to hear.

I know what I know and I know when other men have yet to learn
You already know these things, why do you pretend not to?
Is it because this all seems just so oppressive? ":O}

 

[Gizmo]

If I alienate then consider the possibility it is not I but truth that gives offense.

So does that mean that if I alienate everyone around me I must be right?

I have given freely of what I have to give. Each must decide if what I have to give is valuable or worth having.

To my knowledge, I've never suggested otherwise.

Please consider that when you place a rains upon a horse you alienate him.
When you correct a child you alienate him. You separate him from his excuse to do wrong.
is why parents are just so popular with their kids.":O}

Please consider that neither the horse nor the child have the option to go elsewhere, for if they did they surely would. Further, both the horse and the child have to understand at some level that they are loved; they have to see that we sacrifice for them, otherwise we lose any hold we have over them and thus any ability to influence them for the better.

Consider the beaten slave; he may be forced into obedience, but he will never be compliant.

I'm talking about willful misbehavior. I see the vast majority of people as having failed to grow up.As never having accepted responsibility for their actions. Of thinking that if others agree then they must be right.

I'm not disagreeing. However, if others disagree that doesn't automatically make them right EITHER.

I have lived with oppression few have known. Is why I know what few know

I have done things most men will never do, nor be called upon to do. I know what my beast is capable of in a way few ever will.

Not meaning to be harsh, but this means nothing. While our personal experiences shape who we are, this falls under the heading of 'argument by authority' and is of no value.

As I said before, if you are happy with where you are at that is really all that is required. It's not your job to walk my path, nor is it my job to walk yours.

 

[cloasters]

Daniel I support your search and your quest for your enlightenment. Most folks can't do this. For doing so you deserve great respect, and I respect you greatly.

I think it's time for me to stop arguing with you about things political. At times you seem to deliberately misunderstand some of my statements.
↑

I posted:

"The Dems lost the 2016 election because they had nothing to offer. The DNC still has nothing to offer. Talk about an oligarchy!
Rather than address their catalog of shortcomings--the worst one is that they care about the rich and not one iota for the poor, they began chanting "Russia, Russia, Russia!"

Worse still---it's working. All "Russia, Russia, Russia!" All of the time.

Americans should take a closer look at American history. Too many folks know next to nothing.

I'll leave it at that."

(Click to expand...)

The start of your reply:


"Sorry I can't buy this argument. it presupposes that the Republicans did have something to offer."

I seriously doubt I ever stated that the Republicans have, had, or will have anything to offer.

At least some of your political arguments may not be framed by your spirituality. Please accept this.

More than enough said.

 

[Daniel~]

Daniel I support your search and your quest for your enlightenment. Most folks can't do this. For doing so you deserve great respect, and I respect you greatly.

I think it's time for me to stop arguing with you about things political. At times you seem to deliberately misunderstand some of my statements.
↑

I posted:

"The Dems lost the 2016 election because they had nothing to offer. The DNC still has nothing to offer. Talk about an oligarchy!


"Sorry I can't buy this argument. it presupposes that the Republicans did have something to offer."

I seriously doubt I ever stated that the Republicans have, had, or will have anything to offer.

said.

And you must understand that when we debate I speak not you, but to your argument. If you put forward that the Dems lost because they offered nothing, then It must follow that the Rep, won on the same coin.
it follows that they offered something. And upon reflection I find I must agree. They offered malice. They put forward bigotry as a measure of men. As clear as it has ever been done they put forward evil.

To be honest I question the clarity of any who think we made the better choice as a nation. And again, if that's not perfectly clear to someone, I'd guess that they are not black are not female are not yet 40 years and most likely think wee would be better off burning the whole thing down. If they didn't want these things...BOY! have they made a big mistake.

 

[Daniel~]

So does that mean that if I alienate everyone around me I must be right?


To my knowledge, I've never suggested otherwise.



Please consider that neither the horse nor the child have the option to go elsewhere, for if they did they surely would. Further, both the horse and the child have to understand at some level that they are loved; they have to see that we sacrifice for them, otherwise we lose any hold we have over them and thus any ability to influence them for the better.

Consider the beaten slave; he may be forced into obedience, but he will never be compliant.


I'm not disagreeing. However, if others disagree that doesn't automatically make them right EITHER.


I have done things most men will never do, nor be called upon to do. I know what my beast is capable of in a way few ever will.

Not meaning to be harsh, but this means nothing. While our personal experiences shape who we are, this falls under the heading of 'argument by authority' and is of no value.

As I said before, if you are happy with where you are at that is really all that is required. It's not your job to walk my path, nor is it my job to walk yours.

Wow! you read the whole thing! LOL

There seems to me to be to be a difference between oppression and suppression.
Oppression as I have said turns a man inward and forces him to inwardly deal with external forces. .
this can be seen as a Gardner cutting back a bush increase it's yield in the next season.

Suppression stifles growth and results in rebellion as you pointed out.
One could almost think of these two as white magic and black magic except there's nothing magical about either. both deal with energies, one cultivates the other saps.

Try and see it this way. REASON is the ultimate oppressor.
Reason cares not what you want,
cares not what you like.

Reason is totally indifferent to you and your needs. If it were not it would useless to us.
For reason to properly function in a man's life, it must be given primacy.
It must become the first thing we pick up and not the last if it is to intercede for us in difficult situations.

Reason reveals the LAW!
Reason requires our conformity to the law thus revealed.
Reason demands that we oppress ourselves and hold our selves accountable before the law.
for this IS the law of our very being.

People put forth some funny ideas. One I've come across strikes me a particularly odd.
The notion that we as humans have a broad lee way in the manner we choose to live.
This is the purest nonsense.

There is only one right way for every man and woman ever born. To the extent that this path is pursued a man or woman gains power from the path as they go forward in life. You can literately watch them grow stronger by the day.

To the extent that we whimsically abandon reason we deteriorate and this two can be observed in our fellows.
Reason always speaks to us of moderation, of remaining in the middle where our nourishment is most easily found.

Reason is my tool of oppression. Reason is natures way of revealing the middle path.

In the I-Ching it is said:

The King marches forth seeking game. He uses beaters on three sides only. Taking only the game that exposes itself to him. For this accords with his kingly attitude.

We can apply this to methods of teaching, they all have this in common.

"Those who come to him he excepts. Those who do not are allowed to go their own way."

How ever well one may ride a horse, one still cannot make him drink!
The thirst must already be there. for it is the students hunger for knowledge that the sage uses to oppress him":O}

For every law that he reveals to a student can only serve oppress his natural instincts.This act of oppression can actually elevate a man's conciseness.

How ever if we suppress those instincts by any means forceful we get very unwholesome results.
Just as fire when it is smothered produces an acrid and bitter smoke.

But if one can find the right way into a students thinking, if one can gain his confidence and engage him though reason progress is sure to follow,

I wasn't attempting to appeal to authority. I was simply stating who and what I am.
This to demonstrate where I am coming from. I try and use authority as the proper authority can state the case more clearly than I. But I like yourself have grave suspicions in following what has not been established though reason even in regards to faith.

I have tried to make my self strong in faith.
What do I try to have faith in?
What is.

The workings of the universe. The paths of our fathers. seeking to rise above their merely animal inclinations
To learn to speak, to learn to care for what is not ours yet is ours to care for.
The very process of birth and death.

I try to use my reason as an instrument of perception.I like to see into things and try to discover if I can, their inner most heart.

Wow! you read the whole thing...Just WOW! LOL

 

[Gizmo]

Wow! you read the whole thing! LOL

I find myself concerned that this amazes you. I have ALWAYS read the full text of anything I have responded to.

I have frequently found myself wondering if you have read everything I posted before you started responding.

That this gulf separates us concerns me greatly, as it suggests that both of us are rather less precise in our communication and expression than we imagine ourselves to be.

As for the rest of this post, there's not really anything for me to add. There are some fine points that I might take issue with, but the central thrust is accurate enough.