Discussion in 'Random Nonsense' started by cloasters, Nov 22, 2019.
In that case if we grab a computer in a raid that is being used as a detonator we just wait for it to go off?
LOL! The Supreme Court finally ruled against the gummint. Highly unusual.
Yes but how wise was it?
If my "rights " are violated my porn collection is exposed
If they refuse to violate the rights of a terrorist... we lose a school o r worse..
I just don't value my rights over the survival of others..
Turns out that it was the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. Any self respecting terrorist crossing our border legally sure as sugar wouldn't bring in self incriminating evidence.
hmmm...Evidence, you mean like high explosives or passenger air craft? ":O}
I am anti-terrorist all the way. I like people's privacy a lot. Pennsylvania's Supreme Court has made the ruling. Elsewhere the thugs in charge can demand access to your laptop, phone and all other personal electronic gear. Happy now?
It looks like we're seeing the friction between rights of the individual vs. rights of the group again.
I want all the rights I can stand my neighbor having. If I don't want my neighbor to have a nuke, then I must renounce having one.
I hate people who cannot mind their own business. But My government needs to know what I and my neighbor do not. Like "whose flying that plane"!??
So we come to need to know. I want my Government to be able to access whatever is needed to keep I and my neighbor safe...If they can show a need to know in order to do that. A need that over shadows my right to privacy. I would think myself foolish for trying to prevent that.
So whose lap top are we talking about? If it's mine they have have it right now. Why would I care?
But I want to see the "Need to know."So my neighbor who might be more sensitive to such inquiries is not abused.
We want privacy for a reason. My reason is simple I don't want to be bothered by stupid or evil people sticking their noses where they don't belong.
But there are some pretty good reasons to impinge upon my privacy.
So as Kaitain summed up for us it's a balancing act neither side can ALWAYS be right.
George, you wouldn't want a lap top we have good reason to believe is trying to harm us as individuals or a nation to go UN-examined. And I would not want the Law to be able to grab any lap top without good cause and due process...when we have time for due process and closely examine afterwards Weather we really needed to in any particular emergence.
Lap tops are used by both good and evil people a like. We have to be able to differentiate between them and the only way to do that is to look.
So under what circumstances should we be allowed to look?
When ever human life might be at stake. No one persons privacy should ever over rule another's life.
The Fourth and Fifth Amendment were shattered to pieces decades ago. Perhaps they were too idealistic? All I know is that 9/11 allowed our government to run roughshod over at least two "sacred" founding principles written down and agreed to by our if you'll pardon the phrase "Founding Fathers."
Seeing an unjust war up close and personally made me sensitive to all things that can be used by corrupt governments to steal we the people's protections from authoritarian rule. Our Bill of Rights is nearly a dead letter.
And far too many people actually like Trump and his goon squad.
Love it or leave it--that's a coward's statement. Dissent is protected by law.
As it should be, yours but mine as well.":O}
Sorry K. as your not an American, you have no rights...":O}
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
In an ideal world, yes, we'd accept some degradation of our personal liberty in exchange for the wellbeing of society at large. In an ideal world, we'd elect representatives that could be trusted in office to act for the greater societal good. We'd put into place systems, checks and balances that would make it very unwise, or at least very difficult for people to abuse positions of authority and trust. In such an ideal world then yes, we could permit the government to monitor our communications and more, safe in the knowledge that such intimate knowledge of our friendships, virtues, sins, desires and follies will not be used to harm us. Provided we don't transgress the law.
That's not the world we live in. I don't think I need to elaborate.
On the original point, the UK has a rather neat workaround. We do actually have rights, although not so rigidly codified. One of our rights is the "right to remain silent." (Note that it may harm your defence if you later rely on something you remained silent about in court). This is effectively our version of the 5th amendment - we cannot be compelled to incriminate ourselves.
So here's the workaround: Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act - you can be ordered to surrender your encryption keys (or unlock your device, or whatever. Penalty for refusing is a mandatory 3 year jail sentence.
An innocent person would have to consider very carefully whether to make a martyr of themselves over a principle. A criminal is damned either way.
Aside note to George.
Many the time you have denounced corruption as if corruption was total and unremitting.
But is it?
Did you watch the impeachment inquiry? Because there is a pretty obvious war being engage in right now and it is a war AGAINST CORRUPTION.
Yes the republicans have most definitely become the party of treason and in my humble opinion we should begin their impeachment at once...for treason.
But if you watch you soon realize that this country is served by patriots. Men and women of the very highest caliber. People who could make millions in the private sector. People who truly love this country and it's institutions.
I watched as one after another threw their entire life's work to the winds to speak unflinchingly truth to power.
I had no idea how really amazingly competent, honest and hard working the people who serve us in posts abroad are.
They flat out told the republicans that they are behavior is completely in service to Putin.
There was plenty of money going around, but they touched not one dime.
Yes George there is always corruption. What you neglect is that there are always those who fight it, Or our democracy would not exist. I heard you assert many times that it is completely corrupt and our votes don't matter.
Were this true there would be no inquiry into corruption There will always be corruption. Their will always be those who fight against it.. You have a vote, vote for those who fight against it. Why because they are more perfect people than you or I ?
No. Because like you and I they are trying to fight the darkness and need our help. They need our reconition of their efforts of their integrity. They need us to believe them when they bring coruption into the light.
When a thing becomes totally corrupt it ceases to exist.Our democracy has always had to fight off evil and corrupt men. We have may God be praised always had our heroes fighting that good might prevail.
It is not enough to hate the corrupt, we must love the honest as well and give them public praise.
Because when they speak out they step upon the hangman's scaffold. They are hounded in their private lives and threaten in their very homes.
If we do not rally in their defense we become the corruption we say we despise. Calling out that all is corruption, is a corruption. And it leaves those who truly fight for us without shelter from the storms that pursue honest men every day of our lives.
There are those in every government who love us and fight every day for us and be damned those who call them corrupt.
"I pity the country without heroes. I pity the country that needs them."
I'm inclined to see darkness all around me. Thank God that a few people in places of power really care about killing off corruption!
It's just that they seem so very rare upon the ground and evil flourishes from sea to shining sea.
I use to see it that way. But that's because I was looking a the politicians.Where most all corruption resides.
I am a Trump disbeliever in all things. But even the anti-Trump sites I visit too often feature the ultra monster's pic. The horror!
It would be a good idea for me to put my interest elsewhere but that's difficult. Suggestions are most welcome.
That is a public illusion. It's because the corrupt do all the talking. No one knew who our ambassadors were in the Ukraine... until they rose up against Trummy and what he was trying to do to their sweat song of service to you and I.
For every elected official there are thousands of common folk doing the work of our governance.
We have an openly treasonous political party. Without the corrupt senate hiding their heads up each others asses Trump would have been gone in his first 3 months. I very much doubt that Putin ONLY owns one guy in our government.
It has been and will continue to be, a crime a day. Trump won't stop because he can't stop. For whatever reason he is a slave to Putin and his own idiocy, he will continue until he is stopped
Once out of office his life will be consumed by criminal charges, trials and prison..
A half a dozen states are contemplating weather they really have to wait until he is out of office because...they don't.
NOTHING in our constitution says you can not indict and convict a sitting pres. Nothing.
The main idea was that a foreign gov. might bribe our pres...THAT"S why we have impeachment as a basic tenant of our constitution, to stop foreign interference.republicans have been cheating on elections since we were kids. it must have seemed natural to them to use foreign influence. How many of them are compromised?
As many as took Putin's help, We now see Putin finger prints all over Brexit.
But there will be an accounting.
Looks like Trump's ugly little hands are also behind Brexit. Brexit, at least in theory would be good for the USA. And BAD for Britain, they are completely insane to think even for a minute that divorcing the European Union would be good for the UK.
They'd be stuck on their little island with no relations with their closest partner, twenty miles away. The US is three thousand miles away and NOT their best trading partner. By far.
This is ALL putty putin. He's found a fool in just about every
EU country as well as our own.
but unlike dictatorships we regularly change our leaders.
Once we do the truth will become widely know. When it does
The question on every red blooded patriot's lips will be
what has our government done to unremittingly punish putty TODAY.
( *know, but that was yesterday, What did you do TODAY!)
Separate names with a comma.