A real shame about POL 5; the best feature of POL is the freedom, and I worry the POL 5 scripts are going to be very restrictive, as the POL 4 freedom meant that tweaking for people's different hardwares etc could be done too. But, yes, I can see how it would be great if uploading a script could be done, for sure!

I glanced at the Issues at their repo link, but am not really any the wiser, lol, and not sure if adding in all the POL 4 functions is already requested or could be. I saw people saying POL 5 is less intuitive/more complex.

This vid, at 1:39, shows a familiar screen, but I have to admit to not really understanding POL 5 in any real way.

Unsure if Lutris is open source/private etc. I know many don't have this concern, but I keep away from anything DRM/google/fb etc, or that has to go through something else. I'm pretty much decided that when POL 4 stops working, it's time to try to learn winetricks and to draw the line about any new games beyond that point. Got a humungous backlog anyway, and very glad of your guides to date. If you know of a simple winetricks tutorial anywhere, that would be awesome.

Thanks Booman Winetricks sounds like it has some good features, excepting I run latest wine-staging as main system version, which eg enables installing Gog's Witcher 3, along with needing dxvk too though.

Yes, the Lutris scripting not working hopefully isn't prophetic in showing that POL 5 scripts won't go too well and end up being a waste of time. And I agree; hopefully everything possible in POL 4 is incorporated ... the video did seem to show familiar screens, but so quickly, and in another language!, that it was hard to tell. Fingers crossed, and, depressing though things are, it's good that the video shows some hope and that maybe it just turns out to be a more complex looking front to things, but still the same functions hidden in there.

I just had a quick try of the deb, via live usb [don't want to mess up current system], and it did install a little dx9 game, but suggests lower specs eg xp/wine 3.0.2, instead of win7/latest wine ... that can be changed, but I found the wine 3.16 version I chose wouldn't download so no install possible, whereas having to follow their script meant the game installed but didn't run as smoothly. Clicking on 'console' didn't bring up a console at this point. Alpha bugs most likely (hopefully).

Have to choose the JavaFX link to run it. Then Custom, Local Installer, select/drag exe in. It suggested 'recommended' for each stage eg x86, win XP. There wasn't an option higher than win7, but I'd gone with x86. No actual buttons showed up on the game installer, so I had to wing it. Having to search out a shortcut manually wasn't so great. Nowhere to add extra dependencies or change the wine version, but the familiar engine settings part was there. The engine tools tab leads to 'configure wine', task manager, repair, etc. On system, the POL 5 directory etc is hidden.

Bemused why things are made complex, and critical choices removed. Investing in making what was already there even more cleaned up would have been best for gamers, alongside eg your clear guides more centrally linked to, not 'dumbing down' in a way that cuts out very important features.

Officially grumpy, lol.

Good summary, and I agree; it's not impressive, and, as you point out, more likelihood of games breaking (due to scripts etc) seems to be being brought IN, which, along with abandoning the better independent options of POL4, just seems deliberately regressive.

Better to add to POL4, as we already know, rather than forcing people to either struggle with wine (whether on not they are able), or pressure to be more online/commercial/drm, or just not play on the pc. My overall feeling is that it's more towards laziness/convenience/corporate-friendly, with little concern for those 3 factors.

Yes, POL 5 had stalled for me too, on appearing to start installing wine 3.16; no messages.

Some sort of silver lining is that whatever is included into wine is helpful, while approaching learning very basic wine; I've found one or two very simple clear tutorials so far. I'm finding, with the (staging) system I'm running, exes for some little dx9 games often install anyway, just with a doubleclick, which was amazing to discover very recently, plus it looks like all those gog purchases will at last be played, lol.

Hopefully it'll take ages and ages more, and, in that time, they'll realise that including every POL 4 feature is how to be really popular, lol. Definitely better to work steadily and get things right. Does that also mean it could be quite a long time before POL4 is retired to a pasture somewhere? (yay!)

I found the renaming confusing too, so I don't see the point in those changes either. And, yes, manual all the way, and I like the sandboxing win win you're describing ... independent installs that feed into the script library sounds like the perfect outcome all-round. At the end of the day, I can't imagine the dev wouldn't include what everyone uses so much, so maybe as development continues we'll see all the great POL4 features coming back in.

Good luck to them, definitely, but I'm a little puzzled why, with Lutris/Proton etc, they would want to do a similar thing, when POL4 is unique and surely less work to maintain. A very ambitious plan, especially when low on manpower and, sadly, support. I'm very new to linux and all of this, so it's a shame to hear that POL doesn't receive the support it deserves.

Many seem to think POL isn't around any more, and are genuinely surprised to hear it is, which then makes me surprised ... but then it's often written loud across Reddit that many only care about getting the games, regardless. The few occasions I see people reference POL4, they really love it, and I see you recommending it to people, which is great. I used to when I was on social media.

Many ideas have probably been covered by yourself and the dev. I'd suggest a big crowdfunder, lots of advertising on sites, etc, but I have to admit that without the POL4 missing features I personally couldn't pay in. There could be many who want this version of POL who might though. If the missing POL4 features were to be included, I'd be there in a heartbeat!

That's quite a thing to discover; the Proton release certainly didn't emphasize that, lol, as many may have not been quite so excited if they'd known that ... I also thought 'play dx10/11' meant there'd be no issue with dx9 games. I haven't even touched Proton, but, just doing a quick search, people are having to fix loads of things ... using POL4 and DXVK is easier! and no games taken off the table or more complications to fix.

Incorporating the DXVK switch in POL4 would be really great.
As you say, the development about POL5 is slow, but hopefully we'll see a good balance come in with the awesome features POL4 has plus the DXVK.

Hopefully they will enable dx9 scripts, as you're right; your guides clearly show that different games need different solutions. Both POL5 and Valve reducing options isn't good ... in the light of Valve cutting out dx9, POL5 even more needs to ensure independent installs can be done, not just scripts.

Seems Valve really are aiming more for the new influx of Windows users who come to Linux/AAA games/'compete with MS' route? ... it would have been so easy, as you say, to provide for dx9/10/11, especially if the installer just brought up the right version ... that would have been something that adds something good.

The huge majority of games enjoyed on Linux are dx9 purchases, so I imagine many users, and also the devs of dx9 games, wouldn't be too pleased with what's happening. Funnelling the focus more onto non-native AAA, but critically in a way that cuts out dx9/independent installs, doesn't feel right ... too Windows/Apple 'upgrade/replace device' feel to things.

Any benefits of Vulkan/DXVK/Wine development, in the backwash from what Valve are doing, need to be freely useable, or we're not getting any progress for independent gaming. Learning Wine (and add-ins) directly at least would stop any worrying if POL5 or Proton etc continue to exclude dx9 games and independent features ... "linux wine beginners manual" ... my favourite new search, lol. Just taking a peek at this point, as wonderful POL4/your guides are here, but it's good to see that maybe it can be learnt enough to cover things.

That's great, Booman ... your guides are wonderful, really important for play and for giving choice and privacy. Thank you, and, yes, POL4 keeps chugging along fine ... even if no further development goes into it, will what is there now stay, no matter what?

As you say, it REALLY would be in their best interest to keep POL4 working, also because POL5 doesn't do softwares but only games? Running important softwares through POL4 has been something I've noticed people doing a lot, as I have.

Great to know we're in a group of hundreds! ... that should secure POL4 staying active, yay.